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Old 10-29-2010, 10:36 AM   #16
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The carpet itself is the majority of the cost, but not all of it. Oh, and just for giggles, I priced it out: north of $5,000 with shipping on five rolls of CRC.
It might be worth it to check with one of the organizers of any of the big races. Sometimes they use the carpet for one big race and then sell it off at a greatly reduced price.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #17
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That is interesting, we'll play around with this idea.
Two stroke addesive popped to my mind. should check if its burns if so.

Come on people, let the brainstorm begin.

"http://www.dewittproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=625423&showprevnext=1"

I would have given that rubber paint stuff a go. try one corner on the/a temporary track.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:00 AM   #18
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Is there a reason why you can't use something like this?

http://www.dewittproducts.com/catalo...showprevnext=1


Its rubberized, some sand mix and it even says traction plus on the bucket

I sometimes wonder what makes asphalt great for racing. Is it the coating? or something else?
Tech sheet for that says specifically not to use on concrete.

I'm sure I've been to an indoor track about 14 years ago that had a black surface on a concrete floor. The tire screeching was extremely loud on this surface but not sure what it was.

If the owners are willing to let you put down a coating on the concrete a rubberized top coat for concrete might do the trick. Rubber tires on a rubberized surface should have amazing traction I would think. I have no experience with this myself tho.

Check out this product:
http://store.hypersealinc.com/product-p/primer01.htm. Comes in grey and black too but concrete needs acid etching first.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:09 PM   #19
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Its attitudes and expectations such as these that kill decent club tracks. If a pro guy never sets foot in the door because we don't have CRC carpet, then we probably didn't need his attitude to begin with. Another group tried exactly what we are doing now, last year, and ultimately failed because they tried too hard to please the pros and make it "like snowbirds", etc.. They just couldn't afford it, and neither can we. The problem with carpet is we can't just lay it on the concrete and be done with it. The carpet itself is the majority of the cost, but not all of it. Oh, and just for giggles, I priced it out: north of $5,000 with shipping on five rolls of CRC.
Dude - all you need is carpet, carpet tape and a smooth floor. You don't need a sub floor. Buy whatever carpet u like, but since this is a big investment no matter how u do it it so it makes sense to do it right the first time.

You will need boards that don't destroy cars.

Are you planning on offering a lap counter too??

Unfortunately everything costs $$. U might want to think about making this track a club vs a business as people will be more likely to pitch their own time and money in if they really wanna race.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:19 PM   #20
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You could always paint the concrete with a rubberized paint. We have that on our surface ( outdoors over asphalt ) , and it is rediculous grip. We HAVE to use VHT though.

Our track is a converted roller hockey rink...

Also to note, this surface has minimal wear on all tires. Foams last forever, and our club racers can get months our of TC rubbers.. Here is an old youtube vid , you can see the surface, and at some points you can hear the tires ... soo much grip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt8EGTwjBfk
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:56 PM   #21
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What about this, depending on the overall size of course. Cold patch asphalt.
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/pro...px?SKU=5307111

If it seems too permanent, you could always lay a layer of plywood and maybe a plastic vapor barrier over the buildings original floor. So if need be, it could be removed, nice and clean or not is up to you. Could destroy it with a sledge hammer, or rent a masonry saw for a day and cut it into parts cleanly. Allowing you to take it with you and set it up elsewhere.
Also that opens up idea#2, that if you aren't looking to make the whole room the track surface, you could basically build a sandbox, walls and a bottom, out of 2x4's and plywood, what ever size you want the track to be, and just fill it with an inch or two of asphalt.

May sound odd, but I know it works. There is a track in PA near Morisville that is in the back parking lot of a strip mall, can't remember the name offhand it has been abandoned, but it is an offroad dirt track built in a huge 'sandbox' built on the parking lot pavement. I'll see if I can dig up a link or something.

Also found this for PVC pipe barriers...


That is from http://www.msra-racing.com/

They use a smaller pvc pipe piece inside the barrier piping like a dowel. Then simply drill 2 holes on the top of the pipes and use bungie cords to keep them together. No edges for cars to get hung up on. Brilliant!
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:52 PM   #22
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Check MMR Racing Andrew sells a traction compound that is used for RC, same stuff they use for 1:1 drag racing.
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:56 PM   #23
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If you're on a budget I would get some 2" pvc pipe and elbows etc and just spray the concrete with vht. The vht is somewhere around $35 a gallon and you'll need a weed sprayer and some alcohol to thin it. Since you're inside you don't have to worry about rain washing it away. One coat should last for quite a long time. I went and raced outside on a vht prepped concrete slab and the traction was crazy.
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zake540 View Post
Is there a reason why you can't use something like this?

http://www.dewittproducts.com/catalo...showprevnext=1


Its rubberized, some sand mix and it even says traction plus on the bucket

I sometimes wonder what makes asphalt great for racing. Is it the coating? or something else?
If it is the same as Boral surface coat here in australia you are on a winner.
plenty of grip long waring.
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:26 PM   #25
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Having had a hand in building a carpet track and program...

Just because you have 6000 sq. ft. of space doesn't mean you have to use all of it. Based on the current prices from the CRC website, three 80' rolls of rug comes out to $2160. Add shipping, call it $500 though I'm sure that's more than it will be, and you're into your rug for $2660. A few rolls of duct tape and double sided tape will keep it down just fine.

A modest track requires a modest drivers stand. An 18" high platform with steps on either end is sufficient. You should be able to put it together for $100 in materials. If it was like our club, it simply materialized out of a fellow racer's shop for free.

I recommend vinyl downspout for your barriers. Raingo RW200 comes in 10' sticks, 10 to a pack. Roughly $125 per pack. Buy 4. That's $500. Shave down 4x4's for joints, add three 6" pieces of velcro hook per pipe, pre-fab some corners, and you've got your barrier system. And it's easy on cars.

Amb systems are expensive. If you can borrow or rent, try that. Otherwise, go with a cheaper system. Some awesome, cheap options are out there.

People can bring their own tables, chairs, and power strips.

Altogether, that's well under $4K.

Run a few simple classes: Stock TC, VTA, and Stock 1/12th. 17.5, 25.5, and 13.5 respectively. No timing on any of them.

We started with beat up rug, battered pipes, and an 18" high stand. We ran on it and had fun. Then we built a new track, and it's been awesome. And the club owns all of it.

You can check us out at www.seattlercracers.com

The video on the home page is a Wednesday night club race. No trophies, prizes, incentives or anything. Just guys getting together for club racing. And by the way, we set up and tear down every night. There is tennis where you see the track right up until 5pm.

Don't say can't. Action creates results. You can do it!
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:14 AM   #26
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If you have the budget I would pour asphalt. Doesn't have to be tennis court smooth, but pretty smooth if you can. If you do go asphalt, do it right the first time so you won't have to fix any bumpy parts later on. Also, I would not make it high traction, but just normal traction like a newly paved asphalt parking lot. You will have an initial cost, but hardly any maintenance for the asphalt. If you go carpet, you'll have to replace it eventually ~3 to 5 years.
We would LOVE to pour asphalt and we have been calling around trying to find a deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Dude - all you need is carpet, carpet tape and a smooth floor. You don't need a sub floor. Buy whatever carpet u like, but since this is a big investment no matter how u do it it so it makes sense to do it right the first time.

You will need boards that don't destroy cars.

Are you planning on offering a lap counter too??

Unfortunately everything costs $$. U might want to think about making this track a club vs a business as people will be more likely to pitch their own time and money in if they really wanna race.
We have an offer from a local racer to come down and run our races with his portable AMB system, for at least a few weeks until we get our hands on one ourselves. There is also a small possibility that the property owner can get one through the company that does his kart timing, and he has offered to look into it and help offset the cost. So, for the time being, a scoring system isn't the issue. And, it is going to be a club track, we aren't trying to make money off it. Like I said, we're giving all entry fees to the property owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloRacer1080 View Post
What about this, depending on the overall size of course. Cold patch asphalt.
..acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU=5307111

If it seems too permanent, you could always lay a layer of plywood and maybe a plastic vapor barrier over the buildings original floor. So if need be, it could be removed, nice and clean or not is up to you. Could destroy it with a sledge hammer, or rent a masonry saw for a day and cut it into parts cleanly. Allowing you to take it with you and set it up elsewhere.
Also that opens up idea#2, that if you aren't looking to make the whole room the track surface, you could basically build a sandbox, walls and a bottom, out of 2x4's and plywood, what ever size you want the track to be, and just fill it with an inch or two of asphalt.

May sound odd, but I know it works. There is a track in PA near Morisville that is in the back parking lot of a strip mall, can't remember the name offhand it has been abandoned, but it is an offroad dirt track built in a huge 'sandbox' built on the parking lot pavement. I'll see if I can dig up a link or something.



That is from ...msra-racing.com/

They use a smaller pvc pipe piece inside the barrier piping like a dowel. Then simply drill 2 holes on the top of the pipes and use bungie cords to keep them together. No edges for cars to get hung up on. Brilliant!
Thanks for some good ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
If you're on a budget I would get some 2" pvc pipe and elbows etc and just spray the concrete with vht. The vht is somewhere around $35 a gallon and you'll need a weed sprayer and some alcohol to thin it. Since you're inside you don't have to worry about rain washing it away. One coat should last for quite a long time. I went and raced outside on a vht prepped concrete slab and the traction was crazy.
We've talked about using VHT and it is an option that we want to try. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
Having had a hand in building a carpet track and program...

Just because you have 6000 sq. ft. of space doesn't mean you have to use all of it. Based on the current prices from the CRC website, three 80' rolls of rug comes out to $2160. Add shipping, call it $500 though I'm sure that's more than it will be, and you're into your rug for $2660. A few rolls of duct tape and double sided tape will keep it down just fine.

A modest track requires a modest drivers stand. An 18" high platform with steps on either end is sufficient. You should be able to put it together for $100 in materials. If it was like our club, it simply materialized out of a fellow racer's shop for free.

I recommend vinyl downspout for your barriers. Raingo RW200 comes in 10' sticks, 10 to a pack. Roughly $125 per pack. Buy 4. That's $500. Shave down 4x4's for joints, add three 6" pieces of velcro hook per pipe, pre-fab some corners, and you've got your barrier system. And it's easy on cars.

Amb systems are expensive. If you can borrow or rent, try that. Otherwise, go with a cheaper system. Some awesome, cheap options are out there.

People can bring their own tables, chairs, and power strips.

Altogether, that's well under $4K.

Run a few simple classes: Stock TC, VTA, and Stock 1/12th. 17.5, 25.5, and 13.5 respectively. No timing on any of them.

We started with beat up rug, battered pipes, and an 18" high stand. We ran on it and had fun. Then we built a new track, and it's been awesome. And the club owns all of it.

You can check us out at ....seattlercracers.com

The video on the home page is a Wednesday night club race. No trophies, prizes, incentives or anything. Just guys getting together for club racing. And by the way, we set up and tear down every night. There is tennis where you see the track right up until 5pm.

Don't say can't. Action creates results. You can do it!
Thanks for all the input, and I think you understand exactly what we want to do. Some of your suggestions are the same ideas some of my club guys have had and we're looking into it.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:46 AM   #27
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A few of the UK outdoor tracks use 6mm Bitumen as opposed to normal asphalt.

Asphalt indoors is not always good as the oil residues will never get washed away with the weather which can lead to inconsistant grip levels.

We are about to get out local track resurfaced (original tarmac on top of old tennis courts) after 20 years hard service.

http://www.wlrc.co.uk

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Old 10-30-2010, 04:08 PM   #28
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Just noticed this in the "other buy/sell" forum. Someone is getting rid of their onroad track equipment..

http://www.rctech.net/forum/other-it...equipment.html
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Old 10-30-2010, 05:12 PM   #29
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As for track dividers we just use plastic Downspout screwed together at the joints by just a small piece of 2x4

it allows for cars to glance off and have little damage.

And it's cheap we did our track for about $100 screws wood and dounspout
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:05 AM   #30
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1st since you are tight on money go ahead and clean the floor of all the debris and any slick spots. Then lay down a track using boards, pvc whatever you have laying around. then go to the store and buy 15 2 liters of cheap pop. then use a reamer to open the cap and put a Medium sized hole in the cap. Put your finger over the hole shake up the bottle and start spraying the groove into the track. do it until the hole track has pop on it then you have a race able track but if your tires are coming off like candy coted get a sprayer which is cheap and mix have water have pop and spray the track. If you get a good turn out every week then by the next 2 years you should be able to buy crc fastrack carpet.
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