R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-20-2010, 10:37 PM   #106
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hanson View Post
I have just read through this thread and have opinions on all of it, but will only express a few of them.
I have raced many forms of RC and seen many different concepts over the years. It is almost impossible to come up with an idea that someone hasn't already tried.
The one and only area I really want to touch on is the Independent rear suspension. F1 is a pan car class. Most all pan cars have solid axles. My opinion is it should stay this way. To go to independent, I feel would drive people away. It is one more area of chassis setup that a lot of people don't know and are afraid of.
I have an old F1 car I used to run WAY back when. It has a dual arm front suspension. It has a floating rear pod with shocks. It can use Tamiya rubbers, or 10th scale foams and I feel it would dominate all other F1 cars out there right now. But If someone saw that and knew how much a car like that costs, they would just turn their cheek and head the other direction.
All I am trying to say is keep it simple. Staying that way will keep people involved as well as bring in new people.
+1

You can still get a F103 RM, put a shock and an aluminum motor mount on it and be competitive with anyone.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010, 10:49 PM   #107
Tech Champion
 
MantisWorx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,918
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hanson View Post
I have just read through this thread and have opinions on all of it, but will only express a few of them.
I have raced many forms of RC and seen many different concepts over the years. It is almost impossible to come up with an idea that someone hasn't already tried.
The one and only area I really want to touch on is the Independent rear suspension. F1 is a pan car class. Most all pan cars have solid axles. My opinion is it should stay this way. To go to independent, I feel would drive people away. It is one more area of chassis setup that a lot of people don't know and are afraid of.
I have an old F1 car I used to run WAY back when. It has a dual arm front suspension. It has a floating rear pod with shocks. It can use Tamiya rubbers, or 10th scale foams and I feel it would dominate all other F1 cars out there right now. But If someone saw that and knew how much a car like that costs, they would just turn their cheek and head the other direction.
All I am trying to say is keep it simple. Staying that way will keep people involved as well as bring in new people.
well bring that BEATCH out!!!
in all seriousness though, how do you feel about the software wars? and do you think that the F1 cars should be pan for the next 40 years? i only bring this up because i think the pan cars should be left as pan cars as they are not "real" cars anyway but F1's on the other hand.......... and technology on the opposite hand......... im just sayin
MantisWorx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010, 11:24 PM   #108
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enforcerman View Post
InspGadgt, if you read my post you will see that we plan on the IRS F1 cars being direct drive with only two gears, the spur and pinion. The main difference as compared to the current crop of "tried and true" F1 cars is that it will have an independent rear suspension without a solid rear axle, but only minutely heavier; a win, win if you ask me! I think you are confusing our concept with the previous fully independent suspension F1 cars that were not direct drive, and used either belts and pulleys or more than two gears to get the job done and were definitely heavier. Our car will be a true direct drive car!

MantisWorx, why not try and duplicate Suzuka as close as possible. How many rc on-road tracks have both elevation changes AND a bridge! Plus the layout of Suzuka might be more space efficient.
Even so I don't know how popular that would be given the previous attempts were not. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be popular either. I am only saying I think if that was the way the majority of people wanted to go...one of the other options would have caught on better.

That said I've always liked the idea of an independent suspension pan car.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 12:35 AM   #109
Tech Regular
 
tudor_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 345
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
Check out my website and see what i have done for mini-z F1's, it is quickly becoming the best class in mini-z racing!!
the thing is that even if they dont work as well at first if we ALL continue to give feedback they will get better. im a true F1 fan and i hate the fact that we run solid rear axles and single arm front suspension on a car that should be the quickest cars on the track....just like 1:1 LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN!!
/snip/
Tudor, i dont have any pics as of yet i plan on milling the chassis this weekend and i will probably machine the rear bulkheads next week. so pix will be a few weeks away.
/Snip/
also i am in the process of opening up a 24k sqft indoor facility in houston. it will be the largest in houston and will have an offroad,onroad and full hobby shop. so for now we race at mikes in houston and will start F1 at M+M hobbies in a few weeks after the track is redone next week. i am really going to try and duplicate a real track for the onroad but not sure if i can pull it off!
Oh I wish I was in Houston, we do not have any indoor possibilities here.. and snow is very close so I have a 7 month downperiod now..... I do ofcourse drive my 1.28 P28 and my mini-z F1 during the winter...

mantis, you know I'll be happy to track test your F1 (1:10) parts come summer time.... we have a pretty good track with a 20-30meter long straight and some interesting corners otherwise....

Good luck with the track build and with the independent F1
/Johnny
__________________
Xray T4-14 (BLS551,4.5T/8.5T, Spectrum), Xray X10-15 (Lajf Racing widened 235 4T, IRS)
Lajf Racing P28(LiPo, spectrum), Lajf Racing P28GT (LiPo, spectrum )
Xray X1(21,5T, spectrum) Tamiya M05(tamiya ESC, silver can, spectrum)

Go 235mm with X10 widening parts from www.lajf.se Get your P28 at www.lajf.se/pshop
tudor_47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 06:58 AM   #110
Tech Champion
 
MantisWorx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,918
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tudor_47 View Post
Oh I wish I was in Houston, we do not have any indoor possibilities here.. and snow is very close so I have a 7 month downperiod now..... I do ofcourse drive my 1.28 P28 and my mini-z F1 during the winter...

mantis, you know I'll be happy to track test your F1 (1:10) parts come summer time.... we have a pretty good track with a 20-30meter long straight and some interesting corners otherwise....

Good luck with the track build and with the independent F1
/Johnny
i will be sure and send you some stuff before your season starts, have you seen my new front suspension for the mini-z? its SICK!!
http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content...5/DSC_0076.jpg
MantisWorx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 08:01 AM   #111
Tech Master
 
RC-ProSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,066
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
+1

You can still get a F103 RM, put a shock and an aluminum motor mount on it and be competitive with anyone.

+1 on that... but you still need RobK setup tips (Thank you BTW)
__________________
RCRNV (www.rcrnv.com) / *Keep On-Road alive!*
- Nitro Touring - Kyosho EVO 2 WC
- Electric - TC6 (Out of the Box! No upgrades needed)
- F1 - F103RM (Out of the Box! No upgrades needed)
RC-ProSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 09:41 AM   #112
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 160
Default

Pedro51, that has to be the nicest indoor track I've ever seen!! It flows beautifully, has the elevation changes, and the bridge! How cool is that!!
MantisWorx, there's your track model!! Build something like that!

I understand where some of you are coming from regarding the IRS issue especially with regards to F1; but I have to go along with MantisWorx and ask if we want to hamstring car design for another 20-40 years to the same old solid rear axle concept, or are we willing to embrace other ideas to achieve the same goal. Why wouldn't you want an F1 car the is more scale realistic, that has all the benefits of current solid rear axle cars such as direct drive, and ultra low weight, and relatively simple setup, but has the addition of a simple independent rear suspension that may improve handling not only on carpet, but especially on pavement? To me it's a no brainer. I'm not advocating ultra complex rear suspension designs that are difficult to set up and are heavy; ours would be quite simple and very low weight. You will just have to wait and see I guess.
Enforcerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 10:54 AM   #113
Tech Elite
 
mxrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: N. GA.
Posts: 4,426
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasGod View Post
Snoop-- I have a duratrax and would love to see it be competetive.
Any hints?setups? I already run 103 rear axle/diff/tires.

As to IRS-- yeah baby--
Pretty much all the setups for F103's and 4's apply. The only real weak spots on the Duratrax are the steering knuckles which stock Tamiya's fix that and the bogus springs on each side of the pod. Lube them with the heavy oil or light grease to get some dampening in them. Pick the right tires and go! Tower still has all the stuff for them. I wish they would come back with a full option kit with a protoform body.
__________________
I park faster than most people drive.
mxrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 11:08 AM   #114
Tech Elite
 
mxrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: N. GA.
Posts: 4,426
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enforcerman View Post
Pedro 51 you make some valid points, and yes, we need to consider whether there are enough F1 racers to support a new F1 class. I don't have an answer for that one!

What I am suggesting would be a car that would have all the attributes of the Tamiya, 3 Racing, HPI, Exotek, etc cars, except that there would be a simple independent rear suspension in place of the solid rear axle. The car would still be 2wd, it would still be direct drive with only a pinion and spur gear, it would likely still have a pan-type chassis; the main difference would be the rear axle/suspension which would be independent. I am not suggesting 2wd touring cars with F1 bodies in case anyone is concerned, but rather a narrow pan type chassis F1 car, not unlike the Tamiya, Exotek, etc, but with independent rear suspension. The car should handle great, have all the speed of the current pan-type F1 cars and be more scale realistic to a real F1 car. It would not be the boondogle that was the Tamiya F201. F1 cars should not be 4wd!!

I'm am working with Marty Peterson, who used to own MLP Motorsports, which Enforcer RC bought the rights to; so if any of you are familiar with Marty's designs, you will understand what I'm referring to.
He is talking about kick a** designs that work at the top pf the food chain. But that's not why I'm here. Until everyone is using the same basic wheels the 1/10 pancar F1' should have a class as well. A lot of technology goes into making them so let it build from there. There will always be Tamiya based cars for the purist among us. I drive and enjoy both. A second class is no big deal since they are not the same as a 3-racing F109 or an F103. But they are purdy dang close.
__________________
I park faster than most people drive.
mxrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 02:09 PM   #115
Tech Regular
 
tudor_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
i will be sure and send you some stuff before your season starts, have you seen my new front suspension for the mini-z? its SICK!!
http://www.mantisworx.com/wp-content...5/DSC_0076.jpg
It is surely a work of art...
For all you others out there, this is in scale 1:24 so the total width of that front end is 82mm with the wheels mounted.....

I would really like that mounted on my car.....
__________________
Xray T4-14 (BLS551,4.5T/8.5T, Spectrum), Xray X10-15 (Lajf Racing widened 235 4T, IRS)
Lajf Racing P28(LiPo, spectrum), Lajf Racing P28GT (LiPo, spectrum )
Xray X1(21,5T, spectrum) Tamiya M05(tamiya ESC, silver can, spectrum)

Go 235mm with X10 widening parts from www.lajf.se Get your P28 at www.lajf.se/pshop
tudor_47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 04:04 PM   #116
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enforcerman View Post
I'm am working with Marty Peterson, who used to own MLP Motorsports, which Enforcer RC bought the rights to; so if any of you are familiar with Marty's designs, you will understand what I'm referring to.
In that case just send me one of what ever Chad was driving and we will be good.
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 04:24 PM   #117
Tech Elite
 
mxrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: N. GA.
Posts: 4,426
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
In that case just send me one of what ever Chad was driving and we will be good.
Better than good. That was the V103. Hey! What about that new CRC sitting in the garage???
__________________
I park faster than most people drive.
mxrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 04:27 PM   #118
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxrich View Post
Better than good. That was the V103. Hey! What about that new CRC sitting in the garage???
I got distracted, but if there is a kit to take that to F1 then there is my ride.

I would love to see pan cars with LMP bodies, with buckets and lights. I would love that class.

Edit: But I would rather have a straight up F1 car and not mess up my plans for WGT. If MLP is not producing the V103 then I will likely order an F109 or F104w.
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc

Last edited by snoopyrc; 10-21-2010 at 04:53 PM.
snoopyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 11:09 AM   #119
Tech Master
 
T.MARSHALL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,133
Default

http://challengeformulaone.yolasite.com/
__________________
My favorite track of all time was my home track 301Raceway! Thanks Cwit!
T.MARSHALL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2010, 04:35 PM   #120
Tech Regular
 
bencason's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Almost Western Maryland
Posts: 392
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I see some Tamiya F104 cars listed as F104W.

From reading the listing on Tamiya's site, the front end seems to be from a F103 and is wider than the non-W F104s.

How does handling of this car compare with the standard F104/F104 Pro?

Are there other differences?
__________________
The RC cars are in storage but not forgotten
One of these days, I'll be back to racing... somewhere
bencason is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:30 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net