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Old 10-22-2010, 02:02 AM   #121
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To attract new people, there needs to be a fairly simple point of entry.
Thats why a 540 motor and wiper arm speed control back in the days of when I started the hobby made it cheap - AND simple

Do you restrict the speed or the cost? Either is going to be a headache to manage these days, so it seems.

I think as a newcomer, the simplicity of the electrics is one thing that I didnt have to worry about. That shouldnt change.
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:04 AM   #122
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What kills me are all the tough guys out here who are telling everyone how hard it should be. Guess what, that does not work anymore.........To attract new people, there needs to be a fairly simple point of entry.
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You mean like the way it was not to long ago prior to brushless?


Without SOMETHING between RTR and OPEN, speeds are too fast and breakage rates are too high. The learning curve, with today's electronics and focus on speed (remember when speeds were slower and we actually ran on (gasp) technical tracks instead of having lots of open sweepers to show off our new speed? I'm just getting back into the hobby after completing some overseas committments, and all I see are open tracks that just 5 or 6 years ago wouldn't have even been thought of because there aren't enough tight turns!!!) makes it harder than ever to get a balance of speed and technical skills up to par to keep the vast middle ground of hobbiests happy. Lets face it, without the entry level guys, and the guys just maturing past that, there won't be any growth.


SPORTSMAN is an attempt to control speeds so that there's a mid entry point to actually GROW the hobby and RETAIN folks long enough to support the LHS and tracks.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:41 AM   #123
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hi i race since 18 year

and today i race vendetta TC stock box class i win all the time by 1 turn lap min

and now i know that a stock class is the best to have inequal racing but it was not made for big racing only to have more new guys with low starting cost

and i help other to run better and with time the average lap time drop


it was not fun to win all the time i like to have more challenge


the actual 1/10 stock class is not to have more people

a real stock class is to have all same car i can help with setup of car

but with open car i can't help to much +- 1000 possibility of bad or good setup
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:22 AM   #124
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I agree there needs to be a point of entry for a new racer. I also agree that the fast guys are always gonna be fast. IMHO cherry picking is killing the amount of new racers. Again IMHO if you win stock class week in and week out you move up to Mod. Thats how it is done in other forms of racing. Spec class is REALLY slow and I have only been racing for 1 year. If the fast guys would move up, it would eliminate the intimidation factor. We have guys at our track that should not be running Mod, and we also have guys that should not be in stock. Fix that and RC racing will be a happy place again
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:58 AM   #125
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sorry only 16 racer no mod class here

race is race all life is made same 1 more rich than other

but here the rich guys need to help newer or no more racing



when i check result of stock big race it was a competion of financed racer to incrased selling of compagny not a race for newby



And i'm a technicien and i race 1/10 with my esc (my own firmware) since 2 year

sensored & sensorless

sensorless is faster than sensored no advance
and i can incrased sensorless to +- 45 deg 32000 rpm with 13.5T 7.4V

sensored is very easy to incrased timing and i can hide the proof
you can't see it at scope

and it was other method to incrased total torque of motor no timing advance with a 12 step by turn

i think the stock class need to be same as old trinity spec class same motor esc car = communist in USA
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:00 AM   #126
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There would be three of you left racing your $2200 stock class cars wondering where everyone else went. ;o)
-1

I run a 6 year old TC for boosted 17.5, and until a few months ago... i still wheeled it with a crystaled setup! Go ahead... ask... how well do i do with it?

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ROAR fuels the fire on these issues every year. They can't determine an agenda in June or July and stick with it for a season? Their always jacking something around 2 months into carpet season that causes racers to change plans and buy something different. Wouldn't seem so hypocritic if they would at least stick with something, anything. If they want to let the mamby pamby's dictate all the class rules, fine. Just do it before the season starts and leave us to race for the season. That would save money for everybody!
This is so true. For awhile it SEEMED as if ROAR was helping the manufacturers 'push' their new products into new classes. As members complained, ROAR adapted the rules to appease them.

Ill go ahead and be the one to say this because i have no manufacturer affiliation but, it seems Tekin was the only one that attempted to break the mold. Could this be one reason why they were under so much public heat for so long?

Has anyone looked through the KO BMC speedo thread? There is 1 post for a spec setup to 6 posts BEGGING for dynamic timing software. Hardly a peep from KO. That thread is DEAD. You can buy used KO speedo's for $100 now.

How many of those guys selling their KO's you think keep up with the VERY busy and informative Tekin thread? I come from a Novak background. Bought their products since the early 90's for racing. I sold my last Novak brushed speedo yesterday for $30. Gone. Tekin has given me a speedo to covers all classes, and even with its quirks has become the 'goto' ESC.

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...and here's one of the three.

P.S. These are only under consideration for next year.
... and theres your nonconstructive post passed off as humor.

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What kills me are all the tough guys out here who are telling everyone how hard it should be. Guess what, that does not work anymore.

I'm not a very good driver and not very smart either.
I dont know you from Adam but, why do people sell themselves short like this? As a human we are given the ability to develop and grow. Even people with some form of 'handicap' are generally motivated to achive and succeed... to 'better themselves' and overcome what they feel is a handicap.

Does it make yourself feel happy to assume yourself as 'not very smart'? To just be comfortable with 'how things are' and live a life that your own sub conscious has fooled you into believing?

>SMACK< Wake up man... focus... this is your life passing by.

This discussion isnt about being tough, or exercising the ever common 'e-thug' muscle. If i were trying to be a 'tough guy' about it, i would be posting non constructive sarcastic comments about the subject OR subject posters, or even threaten to whip out my digitized Judo Chop and deliver it at the speed of 3 Teraflops.

I asked the questions above to give people reading this thread something to think about, just in case there were a few things they might not have considered. Forums like this are places to post thought. I generally express thought to cover both sides of the issue at hand, but in this case... there are plenty of people supporting non boosted setups... and their opinions have been made clear.

Not everyone can think 'outside the box'... but that doesnt make one 'stupid'.
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:59 AM   #127
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I dont know you from Adam but, why do people sell themselves short like this? As a human we are given the ability to develop and grow. Even people with some form of 'handicap' are generally motivated to achive and succeed... to 'better themselves' and overcome what they feel is a handicap.

Does it make yourself feel happy to assume yourself as 'not very smart'? To just be comfortable with 'how things are' and live a life that your own sub conscious has fooled you into believing?

>SMACK< Wake up man... focus... this is your life passing by.

This discussion isnt about being tough, or exercising the ever common 'e-thug' muscle. If i were trying to be a 'tough guy' about it, i would be posting non constructive sarcastic comments about the subject OR subject posters, or even threaten to whip out my digitized Judo Chop and deliver it at the speed of 3 Teraflops.

I asked the questions above to give people reading this thread something to think about, just in case there were a few things they might not have considered. Forums like this are places to post thought. I generally express thought to cover both sides of the issue at hand, but in this case... there are plenty of people supporting non boosted setups... and their opinions have been made clear.

Not everyone can think 'outside the box'... but that doesnt make one 'stupid'.
Perhaps I should have listed the races I have made the A main at, or series I have won. The real deal is i have been around enough people with sickening talent to know how good I am. I'm fair to middlin. I have taken enough beatdowns to know how good the really fast people are.

That being said, saying how racing has be so hard to get into is not the way to get new racers or keep the guys who want to get out once or twice a month. Yes, you will never be able to replace knowledge or raw talent. There is only one winner.

There is no need to further complicate things by making new people figure rpm ranges vs. gearing vs. motor temp. Just sayin'.
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:15 AM   #128
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The answer is simple on this........Silver Can racing.....$5 motors, that last a while......when the guy is ready to go faster and quit replacing motors, he can moved up to PRO stock 17.5 or 21.5 with boost....

No ESC problems with a silvercan, at least in my 20+ years of racing, I can't ever recall a speedo setting doing much to a brushed motor to cause anything like this.

Later EddieO
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:30 AM   #129
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Does anybody just want to race and have fun anymore.....

all problems in on-road eletric r/c cars are fixed at the source....LOCAL TRACKS...its the easy fix that keeps getting moved around .....

start at the local track.....have the race dir, contact other tracks in your region and come up with a set of rules that you all can agree on...same esc or very similar....that will set the tone for other regions to get on a very similar page...this will attract the big promoters to look at what the locals are doing in the area that they are having a big/national race at...the big promo will adapt the rules into the race due to the fact he will need local support to pull the race off...once the big promo is booking these rules the r/c co. will see what is run at these big races and will make adjustments as it will be in demand for this product....

and if you dont think it doesnt work...look at the full circle of esc...LRP SPX(to blame..lol), was the kick-off to the extreme high timming esc's...and every co. out there went to work on boost/turbo/time there next speedo or software...then the complaining started with the entry to TC 17.5 stock reaching mod speeds....and now once again every co. across the world has a NON adv esc....

we the local racers controll the r/c world...its up to us to put a end to the "dying" of on-road racing....somebody along the way said enough is enough...and things changed...if every track/club all ran a similar esc that has been tested regaudless of brand, you would see a spike in newbies to the scene....

talk to your club members,race director,other clubs, and even big promoters and tell them what is going on with your r/c world and what can be done to fix it.....

give me 3 TC classes and Im good....VTA,TC/RCGT/Sportsman, & OPEN TC

All of this can be fixed, its just to up us to fix it...
alot of good points in this thread....so for all you guys that love speed...thats fine...17.5,13.5,mod and beyond...boost and turbo away...yeah...

but for all the new people trying to get into the rc onroad scene, send them to the VTA side of the mountain....we got cookies for them...
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:45 AM   #130
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The answer is simple on this........Silver Can racing.....$5 motors, that last a while......when the guy is ready to go faster and quit replacing motors, he can moved up to PRO stock 17.5 or 21.5 with boost....

No ESC problems with a silvercan, at least in my 20+ years of racing, I can't ever recall a speedo setting doing much to a brushed motor to cause anything like this.

Later EddieO
Just a problem with the motors...it's $45 for the good ones
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:10 AM   #131
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$45 for a silvercan? I guess maybe I am buying them from a differenet source?

And in the event of a HOT motor issue......just setup a $5 claim system....

Later EddieO
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:39 AM   #132
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$45 for a silvercan? I guess maybe I am buying them from a differenet source?

And in the event of a HOT motor issue......just setup a $5 claim system....

Later EddieO
No they are 45.00 after someone zapps about 40 degrees of timing into them and breaks them in water for a while. Then you can slap a 45.00 tag on them! LOL

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Old 10-22-2010, 11:10 AM   #133
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yep....just ask the guys running the Tamiya TCS Series When we had them in our area EddieO, there were a couple of $60 Silvercans up here!
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:29 AM   #134
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yep....just ask the guys running the Tamiya TCS Series When we had them in our area EddieO, there were a couple of $60 Silvercans up here!
Maybe I need to visit some TCS forums and see about selling them my magnet zapper...I got the shoes to be able to do that easy! LOL

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Old 10-22-2010, 11:32 AM   #135
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Perhaps I should have listed the races I have made the A main at, or series I have won. The real deal is i have been around enough people with sickening talent to know how good I am. I'm fair to middlin. I have taken enough beatdowns to know how good the really fast people are.

That being said, saying how racing has be so hard to get into is not the way to get new racers or keep the guys who want to get out once or twice a month. Yes, you will never be able to replace knowledge or raw talent. There is only one winner.

There is no need to further complicate things by making new people figure rpm ranges vs. gearing vs. motor temp. Just sayin'.
Well spoken. I knew early on i could never be pro, but i have my days.

I missed the whole LiPo/Brushless introduction intentionally. New tech always has a developmental period. I knew i didnt want to buy into new tech that was still in its 'infancy' for RC racing.

I was intimidated coming back to racing after a few years off, and ive raced since the early 90's. I came back first of this year and had a lot of catching up to do. Learning the RS was fun for me, but i can see where it would push newcomers away. Its a lot to take on all at once.

I suggested a boosted 21.5 TC class with control rubber tires for our local indoor carpet season. I see the importance of having a class for the new guys to get into w/o feeling intimidated by the seasoned racers.

The only reason i suggested to include boost was because of the control tire. Boost would help with the speed fix for some, and control tires would limit how much boosted power you could put down, and be fast with. Kind of a built in learning curve of sorts... eventually they would have to figure out that having that little bit more power might be hurting their laptimes. Control tires have their own issues though... and thats getting away from the discussion.

Anyways, they decided to adopt an RCGT program (any TC/non boosted 17.5/control tire/JGTC style bodies). Kinda reminds me of an import version of USVTA. I hope it sticks and finds a home with new racers. But i cant help but feel its still up to all of us with years of tracktime to help the new guys to make the best of what they have so they dont get frustrated and feel overwhelmed by not only the cost, but the tech involved with todays racing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone considered the impact on local club racing if it was once again the focus of our hobby? In other words, what if there was limited world or national events?

With seasoned racers focused on local activity with limited external distractions, would local racing flourish... or would seasoned racers move on to something else? I only toss this thought in because attendance is so closely related to the topic at hand.
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