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Old 12-03-2010, 10:13 PM   #571
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Originally Posted by RCknight View Post
I sent pics to EAMotorsports. Maybe he can post them here, but I've checked everything. Still bind against the diff.
Order in which to check the rear suspension to be sure it's the CVDs binding in the outdrives-

1- Pop the outer hingepins out and flip the hubs up out of the way. Remove the shocks and swaybar links. You should have the rear arms isolated now. Raise the arms and drop them to be sure they are free. Make sure they move at least a tiny bit between the pin mounts too.

2- If all is good with lower arms, remove the axles from the hubs and replace the outer hinge pins. Now check ROM (range of motion). Sometimes the upper camber links will bind on the spacers between the link and hub. A little trimming with xacto will fix that.

3- If ROM is still ok and all is free, replace the swaybar links and recheck for binding.

4- With shocks still off, replace the axles in the hubs. (quickest way is to pop the outer hingepin back out) Now check for bind again. If you now have a bind, try checking with blade horizontal in outdrive, then vertical. Does the amount of bind change? If it's binding, check that both sides are binding the same amount. Now start making the camber link longer until the bind is gone. Repeat on other side. Replace the shocks, set the ride height and check the camber. No matter what the camber is, report back here what your findings are. If, in fact all your parts are straight from the kit and assembled correctly, the only way the blades would be binding from being seated too deep in the outdrive is if the outdrive slots were machined incorrectly. However, the chances that both outdrives (which are machined at different times) have faulty machine work is hIGhly unlikely...

Hope this helps you drill down your problem
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:24 PM   #572
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Sorry it's been awhile. I've been busy with school work and painting bodies. I'll try to post pics of the diff as soon as possible.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:33 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by Still Bill View Post
How about a lot like the H links.
i dont have the H links so its hard to compare
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:46 AM   #574
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Thanks for taking the time to write that up BigDogRacing. I'll take another look at it.

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Originally Posted by BigDogRacing View Post
Order in which to check the rear suspension to be sure it's the CVDs binding in the outdrives-

1- Pop the outer hingepins out and flip the hubs up out of the way. Remove the shocks and swaybar links. You should have the rear arms isolated now. Raise the arms and drop them to be sure they are free. Make sure they move at least a tiny bit between the pin mounts too.

2- If all is good with lower arms, remove the axles from the hubs and replace the outer hinge pins. Now check ROM (range of motion). Sometimes the upper camber links will bind on the spacers between the link and hub. A little trimming with xacto will fix that.

3- If ROM is still ok and all is free, replace the swaybar links and recheck for binding.

4- With shocks still off, replace the axles in the hubs. (quickest way is to pop the outer hingepin back out) Now check for bind again. If you now have a bind, try checking with blade horizontal in outdrive, then vertical. Does the amount of bind change? If it's binding, check that both sides are binding the same amount. Now start making the camber link longer until the bind is gone. Repeat on other side. Replace the shocks, set the ride height and check the camber. No matter what the camber is, report back here what your findings are. If, in fact all your parts are straight from the kit and assembled correctly, the only way the blades would be binding from being seated too deep in the outdrive is if the outdrive slots were machined incorrectly. However, the chances that both outdrives (which are machined at different times) have faulty machine work is hIGhly unlikely...

Hope this helps you drill down your problem
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:39 AM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogRacing View Post
Order in which to check the rear suspension to be sure it's the CVDs binding in the outdrives-

1- Pop the outer hingepins out and flip the hubs up out of the way. Remove the shocks and swaybar links. You should have the rear arms isolated now. Raise the arms and drop them to be sure they are free. Make sure they move at least a tiny bit between the pin mounts too.

2- If all is good with lower arms, remove the axles from the hubs and replace the outer hinge pins. Now check ROM (range of motion). Sometimes the upper camber links will bind on the spacers between the link and hub. A little trimming with xacto will fix that.

3- If ROM is still ok and all is free, replace the swaybar links and recheck for binding.

4- With shocks still off, replace the axles in the hubs. (quickest way is to pop the outer hingepin back out) Now check for bind again. If you now have a bind, try checking with blade horizontal in outdrive, then vertical. Does the amount of bind change? If it's binding, check that both sides are binding the same amount. Now start making the camber link longer until the bind is gone. Repeat on other side. Replace the shocks, set the ride height and check the camber. No matter what the camber is, report back here what your findings are. If, in fact all your parts are straight from the kit and assembled correctly, the only way the blades would be binding from being seated too deep in the outdrive is if the outdrive slots were machined incorrectly. However, the chances that both outdrives (which are machined at different times) have faulty machine work is hIGhly unlikely...

Hope this helps you drill down your problem
Keep in mind that with the shocks off the range of motion is much greater than with the shocks on the car. I haven't tried it, but there might be a bind at full compression with the shocks off, but you will never see that much compression with the shocks on the car. The shocks will bottom out long before anything binds up.
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Last edited by Xpress; 12-04-2010 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:18 PM   #576
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Here are pics RCKnight sent me.

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Old 12-04-2010, 05:15 PM   #577
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The position of the pins/blades in the cup look identical to mine built from kit - I cant say I notice any binding and the suspension moves freely, its close but theres no rubbing
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:42 PM   #578
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Okay, looking over the pictures i think the issue is that from what I can tell it looks like you are running the optional one piece "front mount" in the rear. You should be running the individual pieces. I think the spacing is different on them. This could be your problem. Look over the manual again and you should be able to see what I am talking about.

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Old 12-04-2010, 10:50 PM   #579
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Originally Posted by KevinHawk View Post
Okay, looking over the pictures i think the issue is that from what I can tell it looks like you are running the optional one piece "front mount" in the rear. You should be running the individual pieces. I think the spacing is different on them. This could be your problem. Look over the manual again and you should be able to see what I am talking about.

Hawk
No that piece is available too. I have it on my car as well and that is not an issue.

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Old 12-04-2010, 10:57 PM   #580
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Oh. ok well everything looks to be in order looks the same as mine. Not sure why you are having an issue. Sorry
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:53 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
No that piece is available too. I have it on my car as well and that is not an issue.

EA
Ya, I have the 1 piece front as well. It sure looks to me that the rear arm mount is not any further in than the bulkhead, which is the way it should be.

Random thought to check?...

Are the hexes seated securely against the pins? Maybe the inner hub bearings aren't fully seated forcing the CVD inward?
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:09 AM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Keep in mind that with the shocks off the range of motion is much greater than with the shocks on the car. I haven't tried it, but there might be a bind at full compression with the shocks off, but you will never see that much compression with the shocks on the car. The shocks will bottom out long before anything binds up.
First of all, at full lift on the arm, the center of the hub and center of the outdrive are further apart, not closer. But you missed the point of checking that aspect. The idea is to be sure both sides move freely, and they travel the same amount. Yes, the shock reaches full compression before the suspension components reach the end of their travel, but that's no reason for your suspension to not to have symmetrical range of motion. I could give you a couple good reasons to have equal travel, but one of the most important is that if you start with equal travel, then any time during inspection or maintenance, if you see that it's not equal, you know something isn't right.

To put it in fireman's terms, if you start off with it jacked up, then how you gonna know when it really is jacked up?

RCKnight- have you had the Diff apart and is it tight? Reason I ask is that if for example you put slightly larger diff balls in the diff, the outdrives will be that much further apart and therefore the blades will ride deeper in the slots.
And, just out of curiosity, why are you running high roll centers?
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:12 AM   #583
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And, just out of curiosity, why are you running high roll centers?
Your curiosity has discovered the reason why he is binding :P

Ps. not sure if this is the truth but running high in the back is not recommended by any of the team guys.
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:15 AM   #584
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I haven't seen them that close but I know with low toe values, narrow rear track and high camber it can reduce the gap between outdrive and the shaft. When I noticed that last season I started running the 50mm bones, what camber, etc is he running? is that how his car was ready to put on track? (camber, toe etc all how he wanted it) If your running the incorrect diff balls this can also happen. I think stock is 2.4 mm balls and there are 3/32 balls that are close but a tiny bit larger. Stacking of tolerances for the loss. The thing you will notice is that in droop it feels free and then suddenly it feels like the rate goes from 14 lb/in to infinite lb/in (less because you have the deflection of the plastic but you know what I mean) while your compressing the rear shocks.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:30 PM   #585
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I did change the diff balls to 2.4 Acer ceramic ones. I will recheck them.

I race in VTA. Honestly it's been awhile, I can't remeber why I ran the higher roll center front/rear. It's my 008 setup. I don't know how different the cars feel, but I thought I would try it first. If I can remember right, I wanted the car to roll less. I then ran softer springs and less camber. I think about 1 front and 1 1/2 rear. I run my camber links higher, level and longer in rear. Fronts are higher, shorter and angled some in the front. Shocks are leaned in more than in the stock setup. For some reason I liked how the car felt this way. I don't run a sway bar, because I think they are a pain. lol I think I opted for this instead. I'm sure someone can explain in detail the affects. I would be interested myself. Wrong or not. lol I've not set up any thing yet, but I will check the diff tightness. Can't race untill the end of the month anyway. I don't remember having the issue with my 008, but it was shimmed more. In the end, I may just add another shim to each corner. Thanks for the help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogRacing View Post
First of all, at full lift on the arm, the center of the hub and center of the outdrive are further apart, not closer. But you missed the point of checking that aspect. The idea is to be sure both sides move freely, and they travel the same amount. Yes, the shock reaches full compression before the suspension components reach the end of their travel, but that's no reason for your suspension to not to have symmetrical range of motion. I could give you a couple good reasons to have equal travel, but one of the most important is that if you start with equal travel, then any time during inspection or maintenance, if you see that it's not equal, you know something isn't right.

To put it in fireman's terms, if you start off with it jacked up, then how you gonna know when it really is jacked up?

RCKnight- have you had the Diff apart and is it tight? Reason I ask is that if for example you put slightly larger diff balls in the diff, the outdrives will be that much further apart and therefore the blades will ride deeper in the slots.
And, just out of curiosity, why are you running high roll centers?
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