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Old 06-24-2004, 01:44 PM   #1
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Default body's,rules and confusion!

iam confused and conserned about the rules of bodies and were there going.
i understand that scale bodies should be scaled down.ie if you run 1/10th then the bodies used should be 10 times smaller then the real thing.bt the real confusion comes when people say they should be based on real car and look like them!
how many new bodies are there that look like the real things?
none.
the mazda 6,pf dodge2,alfa2,losi alfa?
they all dont look like the ream thing then people stick bad boy lights grills on there cars,so you cant even tell what body it is or who its made buy.
also the brca [uk governing body]allow pf dodge stratus 2 bt not mazda 6 or alfa 2?why?
some people have just put small normal back wings on alfa 2 and said its just the mark 1 pf alfa and got away with it.
also losi alfa is legal so why isnt pf alfa 2.
this is one big mess and confusion when it sipmly needs not to be.
is this just a european thing?
i want to use any shell ie pf alfa2,mazda 6 but cant.yet theres no reason for this not to be legal.
we are starting to drift away from bodys looking like the write thing by looks and design.
we are a sport in our own rights,we should have the freedom to choose which ever shell we want as long as its comercially available for say 3-4 months for example?
any one agree?
cheers
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Old 06-24-2004, 02:00 PM   #2
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I completely agree. The truth is the vast majority of competitive racers don't race RC cars because they want something that looks like a real car. RC stadium trucks look nothing like real stadium trucks. Look at the body on the new xxxt mf2. It barely resembles a truck at all, but I could care less because it handles well. Same goes for touring cars IMO. We race them because they are fast, and the faster they go, the cooler they are. I do like the fact that with the right stickers, certain bodies do somewhat resemble actual race cars, but realism is not the most important thing in my book. Performance is. I'll happily sacrifice realism for performance any day.
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Old 06-24-2004, 02:04 PM   #3
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Hi trf racer.

Firstly, in the UK we have two separate bodyshell lists for 1:10th Electric Touring - one for the Modified Class, one for the Stock Class.

The Losi Alfa is NOT on the Modified list, but is on the Stock List
The same applies to the Proto Alfa 2.

Also this applies to the Proto Mazda 6. It was not approved for the Modified list.

If you have any questions regarding the BRCA approved shells, contact Steve Cann, the eligibility officer. His email address can be found in the BRCA handbook and the website.

I have not heard anything about the Proto Alfa 2 passing as an Alfa 1, the Alfa 2 has a much squarer front and rear end, plus has the part number moulded into it.

Oliver
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Old 06-24-2004, 02:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigger Brother
Hi trf racer.

Firstly, in the UK we have two separate bodyshell lists for 1:10th Electric Touring - one for the Modified Class, one for the Stock Class.

The Losi Alfa is NOT on the Modified list, but is on the Stock List
The same applies to the Proto Alfa 2.

Also this applies to the Proto Mazda 6. It was not approved for the Modified list.

If you have any questions regarding the BRCA approved shells, contact Steve Cann, the eligibility officer. His email address can be found in the BRCA handbook and the website.

I have not heard anything about the Proto Alfa 2 passing as an Alfa 1, the Alfa 2 has a much squarer front and rear end, plus has the part number moulded into it.

Oliver
i see what you mean but this isnt just the uk its happening all over europe.
as mwcet8k said and i agree,most true racers want a high performance shell and dont really care much about looks.
WE WOULD SACRIFICE LOOKS FOR PERFORMANCE.
ie the mazda 6,pf alfa 2,and losi alfa all perform better then the legal bodys.
and WTF?
a better shell is legal in stock and not in mod?
this is crazy.
i didnt know that the losi alfa was only in for stock.
this is getting more confusing!
all body lists should be the same,mod,stock,19t.
why arnt they?
this country is mad.
this could be so simple.
all legal shells in all classes.
so if i raced mod in brca then the best shell i can use is pr dodge 2?
even tho the mazda 6,pf alfa 2,losi alfa are way better?
bt u can use them in stock?
so why cant i use them in mod?
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Old 06-24-2004, 04:22 PM   #5
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TRF,

I agree. There should be guidlines for bodies like basic height, width etc ... and then the bodies should be built from that. The notion that these bodies look anything like a real car is just plain funny. How many sedans are part time 4wd? Not all the ones that the bodies have been made of. So why this need to keep using bodies that supposedly look like the a real car. The performance and design of these cars barely resemble the real thing, so why should the bodies? I understand that we will end up with some pretty wacky bodies, but I don't mind if they work well.
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Old 06-24-2004, 04:43 PM   #6
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I agree to a point. Yes performance does out weigh scale realizm. (By Far) BUT if they were to just throw out the rule that they must resemble a real car, we'd end up with a wedge with side dams. These rules about 4 door sedan, etc are pretty rediculous, but they've gotta at least look like a car. Ever seen racing slot cars? That's what we'd look like.

As far as the different lists for mod and stock, that's nuts. If they meet the dimensional requirements as well as the 4 door rule etc, why can't they approve it? Any reasoning behind what bodies are approved and what ones are not?
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Old 06-24-2004, 06:59 PM   #7
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It's kind of simple to have some guidelines.
No one os going to make a weird bodie while there are nice bodies over there that may be performant too.

Remember the crowd pleaser and now the Nemesis? They don't exist in real life but they are credible TC's

But what really piss*** me is the fact that EFRA foeces us to use only Stratus 1, Vectra, Alfa 156 1 and a couple more.

When there are excellent bodies out there, that are scale representations with 4 doors and just because they don't have a 2 liter engine in real racing you can't use them.
If I convince someone to buy a real stratus 2, put an engine with 2 liter in it and race the damn car in the Rwanda Championship does that qualify as 2 liter International (as per the rules)?

When do they start to rule about scale paint schemes? Or wheel replicas? AND WHERE THE HECK ARE TE WINDSHIELD WIPERS????

How stupid is that? for the racers and for the makers of bodies?

They had up to a while back, bodies in that list that had been discontinued for a long time. Now they took them out and added the MG and Astra I believe (and this one is 2 doors!!!)
What's the size of the Caddy motor?? A V8 with 2 liter?? Guess not

Dope or alchool must be good I guess
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Old 06-25-2004, 04:18 AM   #8
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jkerr,there seems to be no resoning behind why there are two diffrernt lists for stock and mod.
also that this is going on every were in europe.
its getting crazy.
i agree with every one above.
even when it comes to dimensions.

i believe we are a sport on our own right.
that means we should be making more bodys like the nemasis and non real car replica's this way we have more frredom of choice and explore.
as long as dimensions are correct they will look like real cars at a glans [sp] but they will be made for maximum performance for rc cars.
body manufacturers should have more freedom when it comes to shells.
is/will the nemesis be roar,efra,brca etc legal?
if not and the dimensions as per rules then why not?
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Old 06-25-2004, 05:11 AM   #9
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Things can be so simple and yet it seems that the job of some people is to complicate what's needs no complication

A simples set of rules like:

Maximun Width
Minimum height
Wing dimensions
Touring car like appearance (coupe or not), or if theres the need to rule out the TVR's and Aston Martin's and the like, just keep the 4 door rule.

This would be enough.

With this simple set of rules all the popular bodies could be used.

The simple fact that the cars have to be replicas (or use the real names) of real cars, forces manufacturers to license their shells. This can lead to things like the one we saw with Protoform - the Stratus line was suspended for a while

If we really want scale we can go to the TCS or race Miniz's.

But the best of it all is to have a different set of "legal" bodies for stock and modified.
I used to think that English were effective and pragmatic... what happened?

Like trf said, we now are a sport in our own right. Bodies should be effective and beautiful.
If we express our artistic side painting them with true works of art, that's another thing we'll never see in real racing.

It's not the fact that the cars are true replicas that will bring racers and public to the sport. How many can recognize a car model looking at a shell from 50 meters?

Is that really important? Is it so important to have the Original car maker on the final results?

I can see the headlines the next day in the newspapers
Spashett wins with Vauxhall Vectra!!!
But Surikarn gave a real fight with his Dodge
Italian cars didn't stand a chance in the hands of Marc and Baker


Last edited by antoniop; 06-25-2004 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 06-25-2004, 07:58 AM   #10
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Shells resembling real cars is an attraction for lots of people, it looks a lot better than a load of nameless blobs following each other around a track, IMO.
We're never going to have truely scale shells because dimensions have to be warped to fit 1.10th scale tourers, but shells can be made to look right, like the Vectra and HPI's Mondeo, and still perform well. What would a spectator think when he asks you what car is it meant to look like and you say, none, it's just an imaginary one. If you're just out for performance then it won't be long until the rules are bent further and futher to create the ultimate "blob" that has all the downforce you can want, with very little drag.

The BRCA lists different shells for different classes probably because stock is the "cheaper" class where beginners are more likely to start. They are much more likely to have a shell thats not legal in modified racing, so within reason, they've built in a bit of flexibility.
I wish they'd be a bit stricter in some cases, but if they were, we'd have very few shells at all that we could choose from. Since the UK is too small a market to effect what the large companies like protoform will produce. We have to follow America to a large extent.
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Old 06-25-2004, 09:54 AM   #11
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I don't quite get it. Why shouldn't touring car racing RC-bodies look like real cars?
Aerodynamic Performance?
The most aerodynamic cars out there are the wedge cars and that's the standard body in 1/12th scale. Instead of trying to change the rules for one class why don't you just race another class? 1/12 is fun, they also run longer mains than touring cars.
IMHO the touring car class should look realistic, we already have other classes (too many other classes) that have no relationship to any full size cars. Why not keep one realistic class that the normal people (people that don't own lot of rc cars ) can relate to?
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:01 AM   #12
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I would love to race 1/12 scale, but there isn't a track in my area that runs them. BTW, even 1/12 scale bodies are based off of full size Can Am and GTP race cars, just like 1/8 scale on road cars.
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:42 AM   #13
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Is there any reason that Tamiya bodies arent roar approved? They seem like the most realistic bodies out there, that resemble so close to their full sized counterparts. Just out of curiosity.
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Old 06-25-2004, 12:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herminator
Shells resembling real cars is an attraction for lots of people, it looks a lot better than a load of nameless blobs following each other around a track, IMO.
We're never going to have truely scale shells because dimensions have to be warped to fit 1.10th scale tourers, but shells can be made to look right, like the Vectra and HPI's Mondeo, and still perform well. What would a spectator think when he asks you what car is it meant to look like and you say, none, it's just an imaginary one. If you're just out for performance then it won't be long until the rules are bent further and futher to create the ultimate "blob" that has all the downforce you can want, with very little drag.

The BRCA lists different shells for different classes probably because stock is the "cheaper" class where beginners are more likely to start. They are much more likely to have a shell thats not legal in modified racing, so within reason, they've built in a bit of flexibility.
I wish they'd be a bit stricter in some cases, but if they were, we'd have very few shells at all that we could choose from. Since the UK is too small a market to effect what the large companies like protoform will produce. We have to follow America to a large extent.
who says that left to there own devices,body companys would prefer to use wedge shell?
the nemesis isnt and i bet it would probably be the best handling body to date.
this forum wasnt really made to discuss what shells look like bt more of why
1 we have to different catergaries for mod and stock
2 why some shells cant be used
3 is this a problem in the rest of europe?
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Old 06-25-2004, 12:56 PM   #15
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It would be the natural progression for shells to get more and more wedge shaped if the rules were relaxed, as you said earlier, you like a shell that performs better than the last one.

Answer
1) see my previous reply.
2) they're too far removed from looking like the real thing (which can be down to the individual looking at them, it's kind of a grey area)
3) it's likely to be a problem around the world, if you're talking about where the line is between a legal shell and non legal shell. The split class differences in the UK seems to be based on a bit of good old British common sense. (even if some shell choices don't seem to be based on common sense)
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