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-   -   ROAR Approved Chargers (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/435618-roar-approved-chargers.html)

Bubblehead 09-17-2010 08:13 PM

ROAR Approved Chargers
 
Are there any ROAR approved chargers? I was told tonight that my charger is NOT legal, because my batteries off the charger was 8.5V. I'm new to LIPO's and all I did was set my charger to LIPO and start charging the LCD displayed 8.4V.

Andy Koback 09-17-2010 08:22 PM

I don't know what the ROAR rules are regarding this issue but in the BRL League, (Oval) batteries can't read more than 8.44 volts for 2 cell and 4.22 volts for 1 cell at race check-in. Check with your local track directer and see what he says.

Bubblehead 09-17-2010 08:30 PM

Andy, If you went to tech and your batteries were 8.46V, what would you do to get your batteries to 8.44V?

CarbonJoe 09-17-2010 08:32 PM

There isn't such a thing. Approved motors, batteries, bodies, yes. Chargers, no.

http://www.roarracing.com/?page_id=14

ROAR rules for 2010 state that the maximum voltage for LiPo is 8.40v for 2s, 4.20v for 1s. No wiggle room anymore. Also, a maximum charge rate of 1C.

CarbonJoe 09-17-2010 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7953590)
Andy, If you went to tech and your batteries were 8.46V, what would you do to get your batteries to 8.44V?

Turn on your car and yank the throttle until you meet the rules. However, at some ROAR races, they may DQ you if you are over voltage when you come to the tech table. What I suggest is to have your own volt meter, and "calibrate" it to what the official meter reads. For example, if the official meter reads your pack at 8.42 volts, but your meter reads 8.40 volts, you better make sure before you go to tech your meter reads 8.38 volts (0.02v "offset" from the official meter).

Still Bill 09-17-2010 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7953521)
Are there any ROAR approved chargers? I was told tonight that my charger is NOT legal, because my batteries off the charger was 8.5V. I'm new to LIPO's and all I did was set my charger to LIPO and start charging the LCD displayed 8.4V.

What charger do you have? Some higher end units are adjustable.

Chaz955i 09-17-2010 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by CarbonJoe (Post 7953616)
Turn on your car and yank the throttle until you meet the rules. However, at some ROAR races, they may DQ you if you are over voltage when you come to the tech table. What I suggest is to have your own volt meter, and "calibrate" it to what the official meter reads. For example, if the official meter reads your pack at 8.42 volts, but your meter reads 8.40 volts, you better make sure before you go to tech your meter reads 8.38 volts (0.02v "offset" from the official meter).

Joe, I'm using a charger similar to the small HobbyKing you have. Is there a way to set the max voltage or is it a matter of using a meter and running some off to make sure the charge is not to high?

Bubblehead 09-17-2010 08:49 PM

I was looking at the rules and it states 6 Nimh or 2s Lipo. Is there any mixing of batteries? Nimh running with Lipo

CarbonJoe 09-17-2010 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by Chaz955i (Post 7953641)
Joe, I'm using a charger similar to the small HobbyKing you have. Is there a way to set the max voltage or is it a matter of using a meter and running some off to make sure the charge is not to high?

I just looked at the manual and didn't see anything to adjust or calibrate the cutoff voltage.

Bubblehead 09-17-2010 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by Still Bill (Post 7953635)
What charger do you have? Some higher end units are adjustable.

It's a Thunder Power TP-610C.

CarbonJoe 09-17-2010 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7953678)
Is there any mixing of batteries? Nimh running with Lipo

To power the motor, bad idea! You could damage the LiPo...

Lots of people use different types between the main pack and the Rx pack.

Bubblehead 09-17-2010 08:59 PM

What I mean can I have Nimh in my car and you have Lipo's in your car?

Still Bill 09-17-2010 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7953690)
It's a Thunder Power TP-610C.

Hmmmm...TP makes good products so I am a bit surprised.

The online manual says that you can indicate percentage of charge. You could cut down on the charge that way. Read your manual for details.

Another thought is for you to check the voltage with another multi-meter. Theirs could be wrong.

Bill

CarbonJoe 09-17-2010 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7953717)
What I mean can I have Nimh in my car and you have Lipo's in your car?

Most bigger races don't allow that. One type only. Local clubs may allow that.

Ron Goetter 09-17-2010 09:13 PM

You can turn off competition mode to lower finish charge voltage back to 8.40.

I would defiantly check your battery voltage with another multimeter to. I've seen multimeter be off by more then .10 before.

HarryLeach 09-17-2010 10:09 PM

Definitely need to make sure the meter is reading correctly.

If everyone's battery is reading high, it should raise a red flag ;)

Bubblehead 09-18-2010 04:19 AM


Originally Posted by Ron Goetter (Post 7953763)
You can turn off competition mode to lower finish charge voltage back to 8.40.

I would defiantly check your battery voltage with another multimeter to. I've seen multimeter be off by more then .10 before.

Is competition mode (plus charge)? That's the only mode on my charger that has a on/off function.

miller tyme 09-18-2010 05:41 AM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7954529)
Is competition mode (plus charge)? That's the only mode on my charger that has a on/off function.

Yes, comp mode is 100 percent +, meant to reach the extra .04 when allowed

Jeremy Otis 09-18-2010 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by CarbonJoe (Post 7953616)
Turn on your car and yank the throttle until you meet the rules. However, at some ROAR races, they may DQ you if you are over voltage when you come to the tech table. What I suggest is to have your own volt meter, and "calibrate" it to what the official meter reads. For example, if the official meter reads your pack at 8.42 volts, but your meter reads 8.40 volts, you better make sure before you go to tech your meter reads 8.38 volts (0.02v "offset" from the official meter).

At this years Carpet Nats I was DQ'd for battery voltage. My own fault because I didn't check before my first qualifier... If you are using a voltmeter I would suggest using the meter that tech is using. As long as you check BEFORE you go through your formal tech inspection and your voltage is to high you can do what you need to get it down with as many checks that you need. In my experience free revving your motor does very little to drop voltage not to mention the possibilty of blowing a rotor up.

slashman4x4 09-18-2010 08:45 AM

Dont give ROAR any ideas, I can see a Novak Roar Approved charger in the works..:(

EddieO 09-18-2010 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by slashman4x4 (Post 7954991)
Dont give ROAR any ideas, I can see a Novak Roar Approved charger in the works..:(

That right there is the funniest thing I have read in a while...

Later EddieO

odpurple 09-18-2010 12:30 PM


Originally Posted by EddieO (Post 7955205)
That right there is the funniest thing I have read in a while...

Later EddieO

Ya, I can see it now, "DQ'd and sent home for using a non-ROAR charger" :lol:

Bubblehead 09-18-2010 06:24 PM

Well I turned the Plus Charge mode off and my batteries came off the charger at 8.4V. I don't understand why they must be at 8.4V and no higher, 8.41V DQ'd.

odpurple 09-18-2010 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7956428)
Well I turned the Plus Charge mode off and my batteries came off the charger at 8.4V. I don't understand why they must be at 8.4V and no higher, 8.41V DQ'd.

If you overcharge lipo batteries too much they can catch on fire and burn down your whole village. The rule is for safety. ROAR's rule is 4.20/8.40v, most others still use 4.22/8.44v. Most agree that either of those limits are well within safety concerns. Is a disqualification neccessary for .1v? Most people think not :cool:

slashman4x4 09-18-2010 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by odpurple (Post 7956529)
If you overcharge lipo batteries too much they can catch on fire and burn down your whole village. The rule is for safety. ROAR's rule is 4.20/8.40v, most others still use 4.22/8.44v. Most agree that either of those limits are well within safety concerns. Is a disqualification neccessary for .1v? Most people think not :cool:

Only in ROARs eyes..

nashrcracer 09-18-2010 07:27 PM

most GFX35 charge to 8.44 and 4.22 so if you run with that charger you got to watch out. I have a LRP pulsar 3 and you can adjust that. I saw sean cochran changing his at the IIC in 2009 so he was setting so that when he went to tech that he had it on the button. I know some of the cheaper ones don't have the greatest voltage control. I have seen them be all over the range. if your serious about running roar races then you probably need to get one that allows adjustment just incase you show up to a roar race that has a volt meter that's off. would be nice if roar did post a list of chargers that are SUGGESTED for roar racing. might be a selling point for a charger company.

Still Bill 09-18-2010 08:16 PM

Having been a past "victim" of the overcharging craze with NIMH packs, I say that ROAR had very good reason for taking a safe stance with lipos when they made their original call on maximum allowable voltages for events.

Besides OD (and at the really big events), I rarely see anyone charging their packs in an approved lipo sack. All the more reason for ROAR to be more so on the safe side.

And Bubblehead only having fifty-some posts on RCTech also gives me reason for additional concern. He may well be a newbie and likely should not be pushing lipo charging limits with such limited experience. BH should otherwise be working on his driving skills to obtain optimum results.

Bill

stiltskin 09-18-2010 08:31 PM


Originally Posted by Still Bill (Post 7956753)

And Bubblehead only having fifty-some posts on RCTech also gives me reason for additional concern. He may well be a newbie and likely should not be pushing lipo charging limits with such limited experience. BH should otherwise be working on his driving skills to obtain optimum results.

Bill

Ron's been around for awhile, just never got into the internet crap. :cool: He is new to lipo and trying to figure everything out. Since we don't normally tech for battery voltage (or anything else for that matter :rolleyes:) he had questions about voltage and charger abilities/defects.

Bubblehead 09-18-2010 08:43 PM


Originally Posted by Still Bill (Post 7956753)
Having been a past "victim" of the overcharging craze with NIMH packs, I say that ROAR had very good reason for taking a safe stance with lipos when they made their original call on maximum allowable voltages for events.

Besides OD (and at the really big events), I rarely see anyone charging their packs in an approved lipo sack. All the more reason for ROAR to be more so on the safe side.

And Bubblehead only having fifty-some posts on RCTech also gives me reason for additional concern. He may well be a newbie and likely should not be pushing lipo charging limits with such limited experience. BH should otherwise be working on his driving skills to obtain optimum results.

Bill

More of reader, NOT trying to over charge. That's why I ask the question maybe you should read it.

Still Bill 09-18-2010 08:45 PM

Looks like you just nominated yourself to be BH's lipo coach...LOL

And I do like your reference to OD in your signature. ;)

stiltskin 09-18-2010 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by Still Bill (Post 7956859)
Looks like you just nominated yourself to be BH's lipo coach...LOL

And I do like your reference to OD in your signature. ;)

I do what I can. :D

Definitely. OD is the man.

Still Bill 09-18-2010 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7956848)
More of reader, NOT trying to over charge. That's why I ask the question maybe you should read it.

You should read your own first post. You apparently charged to 8.5V.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt initially; but, got concerned when I noted how few posts you had on RCTech. That's when I went into 'safe mode' with my last post.

FYI...I see a lot of puffed lipo packs in the trash at my local race track...Hence my concern for your safety.

Go with stiltskin. He is certainly respected by me for his posts (and knowledge) on this board. ;)

Bill

Bubblehead 09-19-2010 05:43 AM


Originally Posted by Still Bill (Post 7956907)
You should read your own first post. You apparently charged to 8.5V.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt initially; but, got concerned when I noted how few posts you had on RCTech. That's when I went into 'safe mode' with my last post.

FYI...I see a lot of puffed lipo packs in the trash at my local race track...Hence my concern for your safety.

Go with stiltskin. He is certainly respected by me for his posts (and knowledge) on this board. ;)

Bill

If you look at what I said was my LCD displayed 8.4V, when the Race Tech used a VOM it read 8.5V. My manual does not explain Plus Charge mode which was on when I set-up my Charger.

Bubblehead 09-19-2010 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by Still Bill (Post 7956753)
Having been a past "victim" of the overcharging craze with NIMH packs, I say that ROAR had very good reason for taking a safe stance with lipos when they made their original call on maximum allowable voltages for events.

Besides OD (and at the really big events), I rarely see anyone charging their packs in an approved lipo sack. All the more reason for ROAR to be more so on the safe side.

And Bubblehead only having fifty-some posts on RCTech also gives me reason for additional concern. He may well be a newbie and likely should not be pushing lipo charging limits with such limited experience. BH should otherwise be working on his driving skills to obtain optimum results.

Bill

Is it a (safe stance) to approve of something so inherently dangerous? If people have their own VOM at track to check their voltage before tech to me something is wrong. Is my charger the only one over charging?

Bishop 09-19-2010 07:16 AM

I think some variation in voltage is common with chargers, probably cause it's time consuming to calibrate them off the production line, but most I have seen have a calibration function, even the cheap ones.

Mine came up low when I checked it, I found the calibration function and was going to adjust it, then realized I had no idea how accurate my multi meter was, so it could have been a pointless exercise.

In the end I have yet to see high voltage make all that much a difference, and given my own lap times (I always set my fastest lap times at the end of a race) I'm not sure I would gain anything, so I figure the fact my own charger read low was likely a good thing for safety considering it was a cheap ass charger.

If it's reading high though, I'd be a lot more worried, high can't be good.

CarbonJoe 09-19-2010 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by Bubblehead (Post 7957948)
Is it a (safe stance) to approve of something so inherently dangerous? If people have their own VOM at track to check their voltage before tech to me something is wrong. Is my charger the only one over charging?

LiPos aren't inherently dangerous. If they were, the major auto manufacturers wouldn't be using them in electric cars. The problems arise when racers abuse them, either by over charging or over discharging. Like that extra 0.04 volts is going to vault them from the Sportsman D main to the Mod A main.

As with all manufactured products, there are tolerances on everything. Better to err on the side of safety. Why risk a DQ or worse for 0.04 volts?

AreCee 09-19-2010 08:50 AM

Joe hit the nail on the head.

If your charger is overcharging the pack then the voltage will read high at the tech table.

I ran in the 2010 ROAR 1/10 off-road Nats and I tech both packs at 8.39-8.40V each time. I only used a 1C charge rate using an icharge charger. There were several people that were overvoltage but once they started using a 1C charge their packs were at or below 8.4V. My pitmate had the other problem, his charger never fully charged his packs so his voltage was 8.2-8.3V., He still made the B-Main and if he hadn't made so many tiny mistakes he would have been in the A-Main. The lower voltage didn't hold him back.

(The Passport Charger he used needs to have the amps maxed out to reach full voltage. That "fix" from Horizon's tech is pretty shabby if you ask me.)

Rick Hohwart 09-19-2010 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by odpurple (Post 7956529)
If you overcharge lipo batteries too much they can catch on fire and burn down your whole village. The rule is for safety. ROAR's rule is 4.20/8.40v, most others still use 4.22/8.44v. Most agree that either of those limits are well within safety concerns. Is a disqualification neccessary for .1v? Most people think not :cool:


Originally Posted by slashman4x4 (Post 7956557)
Only in ROARs eyes..

.1 over voltage is illegal everywhere not just in ROAR.


Maybe the root of the problem is the fact that classes are being raced were .1V makes a difference (perceived or real). I charge my mod packs to 8.35.

slashman4x4 09-19-2010 09:53 AM


Originally Posted by Still Bill (Post 7956753)
Having been a past "victim" of the overcharging craze with NIMH packs, I say that ROAR had very good reason for taking a safe stance with lipos when they made their original call on maximum allowable voltages for events.

Besides OD (and at the really big events), I rarely see anyone charging their packs in an approved lipo sack. All the more reason for ROAR to be more so on the safe side.

And Bubblehead only having fifty-some posts on RCTech also gives me reason for additional concern. He may well be a newbie and likely should not be pushing lipo charging limits with such limited experience. BH should otherwise be working on his driving skills to obtain optimum results.

Bill

LMAO.. So post count on this site is in direct relationship with your R/C experience? Funny stuff!!:ha:
I have never had any of my chargers that would even allow you to overcharge to an unsafe level, not even the cheap ones.. I see more fires due to incorrectly soldered wires on the esc or people reversing the wires on the battery, nothing a post count or 4.2v per cell can help with..

jjfo80 09-19-2010 10:09 AM

ha ha yeah I was going to say the same thing... just because we are newbies on rc tech doesnt mean we dont know anything about rc.. I have been racing for over 12 years so go figure.....


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