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Old 09-20-2010, 08:05 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
We hosted a race this weekend, and I believe we followed the spirit of the rules. If your car weighed 1417, you were allowed to run and told to correct it before the next round. Batteries at 8.41 were given the same consideration. These people weren't trying to cheat, and we didn't have any repeat offenders. If a car was presented at 1380g or 8.5, you were DQ'ed (no one did this). It was explained at the drivers meeting that the rules were in place for safety and equal racing. I think that we achieved that. After the first couple of rounds, we had racers tech'ing each others cars. I tech your car, you tech my car. I'm not going to let you cheat and you're not going to let me. It worked out well and we had a great time.

Back to chargers. If voltage over 8.4 is dangerous, why do some have a "competition" mode that peaks at 8.5? Funny that this same charger shows the same 8.4 volts on the screen but shows 8.5 on the VM.
Tony, it was "Plus Charge" mode that charged to 8.5V and my charger did display 8.4V. My charger does not have "Competition" mode, but from what I read it will charge to 8.44V.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:22 PM   #77
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I would enjoy seeing an argument showing how a one strike rule makes it a better race or accomplishes anything positive.

People take time off work and spend a grand or more to go to some of these races and get DQd for something trivial and unintentional with no chance to correct it? Thats not good business and these races are a business or they do not exist. It is silly to upset the customers over insignificant issues that can be corrected on the spot in less time then they will spend argueing about it.

I firmly believe fun is the key, not disappointment and rage over meaningless technical details. We can enforce the rules within the spirit and intent to keep people from overcharging their batteries to gain an advantage, Or we can make it super rigid and be fun suckers. Common sense does belong in this decision and everyone hates a Fun Sucker.

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bingo! In my other hobby, I race guns. I am a range safety officer, which means that I run the timer and enforce the rules. Every effort is made to keep one particular penalty from being issued (failure to do right +20 seconds). The reason? The club that is hosting the event is actually acting as an entertainment provider, and they know people hate paying $100 entry fee to not have fun. We have racers drop more than $1500 on a trip to a toy car race... They aren't intentionally breaking rules.

Once again, Scotty and the rest of the IIC crew got the recipe correct. I didn't hear about ONE person getting DQ'd for over voltage, or trying to run dynamic timing in the 'limited' classes.

The tenth of a volt does not serve anyone well, especially in off-road - I assume that is who is running the 16+ volt batteries...
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:50 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Yes, I believe that all infractions listed above should result in a disqualification when presenting a car for final tech inspection.

I think the appropriate solution is to have a "pre-tech station" which could allow all racers to have their cars 100% compliant before final tech inspection. However at time of final tech inspection (pre/post race) any infraction should result in an immediate disqualification of the heat/main.

While it is okay to debate the validity for a specifc lipo battery voltage rule at any given event (safety concerns vs. competitive advantage), it doesn't change the fact that it is a rule. If we allow "common sense" to creep into decisions, it invariably creates a perception that someone was given an unfair advantage. It also penalizes the majority of the racers who were able to comply with the rules.
Your reasoning treats us like machines and is based on a black and white perception. You forget this is supposed to be fun*. Having to go and check your cars voltage EVERY time before official tech check because of FEARS that you may be disqualified. Or worse that one time you do forget or run out of time to precheck. To then be DQ and treated as some sort of nasty person who cheats? These are not fun.

Second your adding to the complexity to the racer and the cost if your insisting that there be TWO tech stations as what you suggested. A pre and an official. Even if the pre is unmanned.

I believe stiltskin has the perfect solution. 1 warning and the ability to correct. If it happens first in the mains however, instant DQ.

I'm sorry, I think your logic is sound in theory only versus reality/practice. Your gauntlet mentality forgets we are people. We are here to have fun. Which thrown in shows how flawed your reasoning really is.

*If someone is not having fun because someone else's pack is .01 above theirs. Then racing toy RC cars probably shouldn't be their pastime. Or even their career.
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:18 AM   #79
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However then you also have to keep track of warnings. No thanks. You come prepared and legal, or you are illegal. It really is black and white. Otherwise have the rules adjusted.
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:26 AM   #80
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However then you also have to keep track of warnings. No thanks. You come prepared and legal, or you are illegal. It really is black and white. Otherwise have the rules adjusted.
Your kidding right? Having a sheet with the names of those caught is that much harder? Than having to create a whole nother inspection table for people to precheck. Or interrupt the regular tech table to get your current charge checked?

Cmon.. its about fun. Having to write a name on a sheet is soo much work to do for the tech check.

And no. Its not black and white. If it was all chargers would charge exactly the same and the voltage meters would all read the same.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:02 PM   #81
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Sorry, we miscommunicated: The rules are black and white regarding voltage. And yes, doing tech inspections is a lot of work, and even more so if one allows leeway. It is not much extra work for participants to head to an unmanned pre inspection table, which takes so very little effort to setup and secure.

If you do not want to worry so much about the rules, attend a regular club event, where the organizers do not tech, but go on faith that no one is cheating.

What I recommend is that during practice, before a large event, tech is setup and everyone familiarize themselves with the nuances. For the first qualification (in a ROAR level 4 or below only) allow participants to discharge at the tech table and pass. After that, you come and are ready to be DQ'd or pass, black and white, legal or not legal. Again have an unmanned tech table with the same equipment. Should there be a discrepancy between 2 of the same model voltage checker, both are considered legal. Very easy I think.


People bitching and moaning as seen in most of this thread is why I would not have any fun attending a large race. I only have fun helping run the event then, because ROAR and IFMAR have laid out quite clear rules, and in some cases the appropriate punishment. If ROAR of IFMAR would like to change the rules to allow over-voltage cars to run, then they should do so. Maybe add 5 seconds per hundredth over? At least clarify what the punishment is for each and every rule for a Level 5 event.
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