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Old 12-09-2011, 03:42 AM   #3796
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post


1. Set the trim at zero
2. Position the servo saver on the servo as close to a 90 degree angle WITH THE STEERING LINK as you can get
3. Adjust the subtrim until the angle IS 90 deg from servo horn to steering link
4. Adjust the link length so that the steering is centered
5. Set EPAs

I know the '12 manual says to put the servo horn at 90 degrees to the servo but it's wrong, set it this way and you won't have a drastic difference between left and right
I don't see what difference it makes to the amount of throw if the saver is either at 90 with the link, or 90 deg with the servo.
I would have thought that the only difference would be the speed of the throw (very slightly) around the centre point.

As I mentioned in my previous post, there is only a few percent difference in EPA either way for mine (with saver vertical).

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Old 12-09-2011, 04:47 AM   #3797
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I think it is important to get the servo saver as close to vertical(90 degrees) as possible with the trims all set to 0. Then lengthen/shorten to the steering link to get the rack straight, then trim out with the sub trim.
At the end of the day, if the sub trim is out 10 points it shouldnt matter too much, thats what sub trim is for, that small measurement between servo teeth you can never get straight
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:33 AM   #3798
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It all sounds exactly like what we are doing. I say we cause it isn't just my car that has this trouble. A fellow racer and a team driver both have confirmed this as a hicup in the assemble of their '12s and asked if I found the same thing with my converted '11.

Here is what I did. First I measured the links to kit length, same both sides. Got everything mounted up. On my servo I cannot get the horn straight up and down with out a huge amount of subtrim. I am using a futaba 4pk and a futaba brushless servo (451).

I even tried moving the servo horn over and just looking at the holes, trying to find one that is closer to 90 degrees with zero subtrim.

Once I find a suitable hole, I use the subtrim to get it to 90 degrees.

Next I mount up the steering link and adjust the length so it is centered. I use a hudy setup station to ensure it is centered.

Now here is the point I have issue with. I next use the end point setting on the radio to get even endpoints on my steering. I will typically run about 20 to 30 points higher in one direction than the other to maintain steering symmetry.

I have a T3'10 and I will check the trows on that to see what is needed there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketboy View Post
Both my T3's are spot on.

Have you converted to the new steering, or still use the old style.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:46 AM   #3799
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Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post

Have you converted to the new steering, or still use the old style.
I know the answer - converted ones. Mine are both pretty much perfect also.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:24 AM   #3800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
It all sounds exactly like what we are doing. I say we cause it isn't just my car that has this trouble. A fellow racer and a team driver both have confirmed this as a hicup in the assemble of their '12s and asked if I found the same thing with my converted '11.

Here is what I did. First I measured the links to kit length, same both sides. Got everything mounted up. On my servo I cannot get the horn straight up and down with out a huge amount of subtrim. I am using a futaba 4pk and a futaba brushless servo (451).

I even tried moving the servo horn over and just looking at the holes, trying to find one that is closer to 90 degrees with zero subtrim.

Once I find a suitable hole, I use the subtrim to get it to 90 degrees.I

Next I mount up the steering link and adjust the length so it is centered. I use a hudy setup station to ensure it is centered.

Now here is the point I have issue with. I next use the end point setting on the radio to get even endpoints on my steering. I will typically run about 20 to 30 points higher in one direction than the other to maintain steering symmetry.

I have a T3'10 and I will check the trows on that to see what is needed there.






Have you converted to the new steering, or still use the old style.
I performed virtually the same process as described above and end points are +/-7 on my radiopost tx/rx ... I'm using the t3'11 steering. The only additional thoughts would be that we made sure that the ballstud was relocated as close to the actual middle of the two mounting points as possible, and the stud that mounts to the servo is shimmed square to the ARM mounting position when the steering is pointed straight... This will ensure as much as possible that the arcs created when the steering is in motion are colinear are therefore equal.. at least as much as possible... My steering is very equal feeling left to right... Hope it helps...
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Last edited by pchroma24; 12-09-2011 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:28 AM   #3801
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Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post






Have you converted to the new steering, or still use the old style.
I converted the old t3 11's to east west by drilling the right handsteering block and putting the steering link ball stud as close to the track rod ball stud as I could, I put a 2mm shim under. The ball stud on the servo saver has a 5mm shim under so that it pushes it forward and runs the steering link pretty straight when the car has full lock left or right.

You should be able to get the servo saver near top dead centre just by moving it one spline on the servo.

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Old 12-09-2011, 09:32 AM   #3802
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is it all standard bearing in t3 2011 are already good or need change ?
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:34 AM   #3803
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Hey guys I just recently purchased a nice used T3 11 that should be arriving next week. Being new to Xrays, what are the things I should be looking over when the car gets here, and what spares should i carry? Thanks

Jeff
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:50 AM   #3804
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Took some quick pics of my setup and then redid the setup nce again, making sure all links are the same, servo is 90 degrees at center, etc...

I was able to get it with 27 points left to right and required about 30 points of subtrim. You'll notice I have the servo arm mounted a little off center but the hole I am using is 90 degrees.

On my T3'10, the endpoints are within 6 points of each other.
Attached Thumbnails
Xray T3 2011-img_8632%5B1%5D.jpg   Xray T3 2011-img_8633%5B1%5D.jpg   Xray T3 2011-img_8637%5B1%5D.jpg   Xray T3 2011-img_8640%5B1%5D.jpg  
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:58 AM   #3805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
Took some quick pics of my setup and then redid the setup nce again, making sure all links are the same, servo is 90 degrees at center, etc...

I was able to get it with 27 points left to right and required about 30 points of subtrim. You'll notice I have the servo arm mounted a little off center but the hole I am using is 90 degrees.

On my T3'10, the endpoints are within 6 points of each other.
I posted this in Paul's thread....

"You just need to adjust the sub-trim and link length to make the end point values equal. If you have a higher endpoint value turning right shorten the link and adjust the sub-trim so the vehicle tracks straight. If you have a higher endpoint value turning left lengthen the link and re adjust subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight. It takes a little time to get right, but it all centers around having the proper angle between the servo saver arm and angle and length of the link connecting to the bellcrank."

You don't want the ball stud on the servo saver directly above the servo output. You need a 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:02 AM   #3806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
I posted this in Paul's thread....

"You just need to adjust the sub-trim and link length to make the end point values equal. If you have a higher endpoint value turning right shorten the link and adjust the sub-trim so the vehicle tracks straight. If you have a higher endpoint value turning left lengthen the link and re adjust subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight. It takes a little time to get right, but it all centers around having the proper angle between the servo saver arm and angle and length of the link connecting to the bellcrank."
So are you telling me to adjust the steering link off of the servo arm right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
You don't want the ball stud on the servo saver directly above the servo output. You need a 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line.
So it is okay for the ball stud not to be 90 degrees from the chasis. The angle I should be more concerned with is the angle the link makes with the servo saver itself.

In this case, the link angles down to the bellcranks. With my servo setup as it is I have an angle of less than 90 degrees. I need to move it to the right some. Makes sense. How about the link in relation to the belcranks, should that be 90 degrees at center or as posted a few pages back 90 degrees to the servo at full lock? Right now I have shims on the servo saver moving the ball out so at full lock the link is parallel to the servo line.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:23 AM   #3807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
So are you telling me to adjust the steering link off of the servo arm right?



So it is okay for the ball stud not to be 90 degrees from the chasis. The angle I should be more concerned with is the angle the link makes with the servo saver itself.

In this case, the link angles down to the bellcranks. With my servo setup as it is I have an angle of less than 90 degrees. I need to move it to the right some. Makes sense. How about the link in relation to the belcranks, should that be 90 degrees at center or as posted a few pages back 90 degrees to the servo at full lock? Right now I have shims on the servo saver moving the ball out so at full lock the link is parallel to the servo line.
Yes you'll want to be close to 90 at lock, but that will never be exact because as you change toe, wheel base, or ackerman shims etc...

If you have more epa to the right keep shortening the link and adjusting the subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight and you should see the epa become closer and closer to even left and right.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:24 AM   #3808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
So are you telling me to adjust the steering link off of the servo arm right?



So it is okay for the ball stud not to be 90 degrees from the chasis. The angle I should be more concerned with is the angle the link makes with the servo saver itself.

In this case, the link angles down to the bellcranks. With my servo setup as it is I have an angle of less than 90 degrees. I need to move it to the right some. Makes sense. How about the link in relation to the belcranks, should that be 90 degrees at center or as posted a few pages back 90 degrees to the servo at full lock? Right now I have shims on the servo saver moving the ball out so at full lock the link is parallel to the servo line.
I would start by having the servo saver as close to vertical as you can with central trim etc, then start adjusting everything else.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:33 AM   #3809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
Took some quick pics of my setup and then redid the setup nce again, making sure all links are the same, servo is 90 degrees at center, etc...

I was able to get it with 27 points left to right and required about 30 points of subtrim. You'll notice I have the servo arm mounted a little off center but the hole I am using is 90 degrees.

On my T3'10, the endpoints are within 6 points of each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
I posted this in Paul's thread....

"You just need to adjust the sub-trim and link length to make the end point values equal. If you have a higher endpoint value turning right shorten the link and adjust the sub-trim so the vehicle tracks straight. If you have a higher endpoint value turning left lengthen the link and re adjust subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight. It takes a little time to get right, but it all centers around having the proper angle between the servo saver arm and angle and length of the link connecting to the bellcrank."

You don't want the ball stud on the servo saver directly above the servo output. You need a 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
So are you telling me to adjust the steering link off of the servo arm right?



So it is okay for the ball stud not to be 90 degrees from the chasis. The angle I should be more concerned with is the angle the link makes with the servo saver itself.

In this case, the link angles down to the bellcranks. With my servo setup as it is I have an angle of less than 90 degrees. I need to move it to the right some. Makes sense. How about the link in relation to the belcranks, should that be 90 degrees at center or as posted a few pages back 90 degrees to the servo at full lock? Right now I have shims on the servo saver moving the ball out so at full lock the link is parallel to the servo line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Yes you'll want to be close to 90 at lock, but that will never be exact because as you change toe, wheel base, or ackerman shims etc...

If you have more epa to the right keep shortening the link and adjusting the subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight and you should see the epa become closer and closer to even left and right.
This is where you want to start with a 90 which should put you very close....

Keep in mind that the hole you have the link mounted in may not enable you to achieve full steering lock. You may need to go back to the stock hole and rotate the servo saver a couple of splines.
Attached Thumbnails
Xray T3 2011-img_8632%5B1%5D.jpg  
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:37 AM   #3810
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
I would start by having the servo saver as close to vertical as you can with central trim etc, then start adjusting everything else.

That is actually what I have done repeatedly and is couter point to what Xpress is saying. He advises, from what I understand, to have a 90 degree relationship between the link and the servo horn, ignoring the relationship between the horn and the chasis.
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Last edited by Meradin; 12-09-2011 at 12:20 PM.
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