Like Tree2Likes

Xray T3 2011

Old 03-09-2011, 05:20 PM
  #1681  
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 95
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Here are my thoughts on the subject, just an opinion.

Hypothetical situation:

High speed, constant radius left hand sweeper. Rolling torque above what the springs and/or rollbars can counter, therefore the right side is against the upstops. You have no more uptravel left so essentially you have a rigid suspension on the right side of the car while in the turn. A slight bump comes along (even a very slight bump). The bump would cause both right side tires to lose contact with the ground (ignoring tire decompression, A arm flex and other things that I didn't think of). Even with zero damping, inertia would not allow the suspension to accelerate instantly to maintain tire contact. Right tire traction goes to zero.
While a chassis dragging would reduce traction it would not quite eliminate all of it and the suspension would drop (maybe?) as the chassis lifts and maintain some tire contact.
The tires leaving the ground would be a very rapid change while losing traction then again when when either the rolling torque pushes the tires back down or the suspension drops, while the chassis dragging would not have such a violent affect.


Just an opinion, no facts were involved in this post.

Not exactly an answer to your question but a possible solution to chassis dragging with possibly less affect on handling would be 2 stage springs or a more narrow chassis.
kmags is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:40 PM
  #1682  
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,914
Default

Originally Posted by omegaf View Post
i agree. i just don't have experience on the track with these things which is why I am asking for all this info. It is precisely because the 1/10 scale cars are scaled in size but not in weight that I am so confused about. I am mostly thinking of the aluminium chassis on my nitro cars. It is very stiff and barely flexes at all unlike a real chassis that carries 1000kg. That's why I am led to believe that hitting the ground will just make the whole car jump as opposed to a big car which would flex due to the weight and inertia.
I am not an expert in the real thing by any means. I am not an automotive engineer, I just go by a few things I know and experienced. That's why I asked for an explanation and some people provided very nicely. I am not 100% convinced but I am starting to see the logic behind it. I would love to experiment a bit on the matter if i get the chance and share my findings.

Many thanks to the guys who tried to clarify things. We shouldn't take the thread more off the topic though.
Originally Posted by locked View Post
That person probably didn't factor in that the mass of a 10th scale car is far less than a 10th of the mass of a 1/1 scale car

Imagine a full sized car that weighs 32 pounds, including the driver.
Remember, we are talking 3 dimensional scale (It's not a painting) 10*10*10!
1.5Kg *10 =150Kg *10 =1500Kg (typical car) and the grip we have available is far higher than anything for real.
Skiddins is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:12 PM
  #1683  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (37)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,612
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

What about the old F1 cars that used active suspension, didn't it limit the suspension so it always kept a specified distance between road and chassis? It failing is what killed Senna right?
chensleyrc1 is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:20 PM
  #1684  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (128)
 
Dusttt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lake Forest
Posts: 2,368
Trader Rating: 128 (100%+)
Default

Wait is this no longer a t3 2011 thread?
Dusttt is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:21 PM
  #1685  
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 517
Default

I'm thinking to use fix pistons in shocks. What is good selection? 2 or 3 holes? What thickness for the shock oil? For running outdoor with good traction. thanks
ioxqq is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:42 PM
  #1686  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Xpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Onroad Bermuda Triangle...
Posts: 1,741
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by chensleyrc1 View Post
What about the old F1 cars that used active suspension, didn't it limit the suspension so it always kept a specified distance between road and chassis? It failing is what killed Senna right?
I believe Senna died from a steering column breaking.
Xpress is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:53 PM
  #1687  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (100)
 
olhipster1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Far away from Covid19 but close to 20
Posts: 4,111
Trader Rating: 100 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by omegaf View Post
First of all i am not driving a train. if that's what you do for a living, that's your own problem go look at your face in the mirror and laugh but otherwise you can stick your sarcasm up your own rear. Maybe you should have considered a mechanical engineering degree like me.
Second, yes, on rare occasions the chassis can hit the ground even in real race cars. You cannot prevent it 100% of the time and there are many reasons why it can hit the ground but the general idea is to use suspension travel to prevent that.
I love how touchy some of you are on the subject. What's wrong? Someone pointed out a flaw in your precious little toy cars?
Please take this super self-diagnosed intelligence to the discussion forum.
This is the Xray T3 2011 forum. that is final. Period.
again kindly move your discussions to the general talk threads, AKA Chat Lounge

back to the T3 2011.
what tires is everyone having luck with.
Tried Solaris Mediums on carpet but Jacos Blues felt way better.
any suggestions
olhipster1 is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:54 PM
  #1688  
Con
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brownsville Ont Canada
Posts: 178
Default

Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
I'm thinking to use fix pistons in shocks. What is good selection? 2 or 3 holes? What thickness for the shock oil? For running outdoor with good traction. thanks
I would use the 3 hole pistons and start with 500cst in the front and 300cst in the rear
Con is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:08 PM
  #1689  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 372
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Default springs

can associated springs be used on the t3? I have an entire set and wanted to know...
obi wun is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:11 PM
  #1690  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (47)
 
andrewdoherty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ★Wylie, TX★
Posts: 3,803
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by obi wun View Post
can associated springs be used on the t3? I have an entire set and wanted to know...
Not without ridicule!
andrewdoherty is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:14 PM
  #1691  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 372
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Default

Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
Not without ridicule!
i can take it....is one longer than another..i have no idea
obi wun is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:24 PM
  #1692  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (37)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,612
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by olhipster1 View Post
Please take this super self-diagnosed intelligence to the discussion forum.
This is the Xray T3 2011 forum. that is final. Period.
again kindly move your discussions to the general talk threads, AKA Chat Lounge

back to the T3 2011.
what tires is everyone having luck with.
Tried Solaris Mediums on carpet but Jacos Blues felt way better.
any suggestions
Can we take this to the Tire discussion forum, this has nothing to do with the actual car!

Just Kidding!

On that question, JACO is all I'll run, unless I have to run another pending track regulations.
chensleyrc1 is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:34 PM
  #1693  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (34)
 
CraigM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 7,009
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Con View Post
I would use the 3 hole pistons and start with 500cst in the front and 300cst in the rear
Outdoors I always run the same oil front and rear. The car never feels right harder at the front on asphalt. 3 hole pistons are the go, 1.1mm holes are also a good option.
CraigM is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:35 PM
  #1694  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (100)
 
olhipster1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Far away from Covid19 but close to 20
Posts: 4,111
Trader Rating: 100 (100%+)
Default lol

too funny
..
2011 Kit setup worked very well with Jacos..
but the minute I put on new Solaris setup went to shizz...

Anyone have any suggestions on what to change setup wise to adapt to the tires.
olhipster1 is offline  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:04 PM
  #1695  
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
 
ByteStream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 1,146
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by olhipster1 View Post
too funny
..
2011 Kit setup worked very well with Jacos..
but the minute I put on new Solaris setup went to shizz...

Anyone have any suggestions on what to change setup wise to adapt to the tires.
I run both at my local track and have found that for me, it take about 8 runs on Solaris compared to 2-3 on Jacos to break them in to where my setups work well. The Solaris are a bit harder tire and I feel they wear way better in the long run.

I run Paul's Cleveland setup mostly but when running Solaris I add 0.5 degrees of -camber to the front and rear during the break-in period and sometimes even a little more rear toe in + 0.5 depending on track conditions.

I also find that I dope the rear tires a little longer when using Solaris untill the traction comes up.

Let me know how it turns out.
ByteStream is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.