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Old 03-09-2011, 06:20 PM   #1681
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Here are my thoughts on the subject, just an opinion.

Hypothetical situation:

High speed, constant radius left hand sweeper. Rolling torque above what the springs and/or rollbars can counter, therefore the right side is against the upstops. You have no more uptravel left so essentially you have a rigid suspension on the right side of the car while in the turn. A slight bump comes along (even a very slight bump). The bump would cause both right side tires to lose contact with the ground (ignoring tire decompression, A arm flex and other things that I didn't think of). Even with zero damping, inertia would not allow the suspension to accelerate instantly to maintain tire contact. Right tire traction goes to zero.
While a chassis dragging would reduce traction it would not quite eliminate all of it and the suspension would drop (maybe?) as the chassis lifts and maintain some tire contact.
The tires leaving the ground would be a very rapid change while losing traction then again when when either the rolling torque pushes the tires back down or the suspension drops, while the chassis dragging would not have such a violent affect.


Just an opinion, no facts were involved in this post.

Not exactly an answer to your question but a possible solution to chassis dragging with possibly less affect on handling would be 2 stage springs or a more narrow chassis.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:40 PM   #1682
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i agree. i just don't have experience on the track with these things which is why I am asking for all this info. It is precisely because the 1/10 scale cars are scaled in size but not in weight that I am so confused about. I am mostly thinking of the aluminium chassis on my nitro cars. It is very stiff and barely flexes at all unlike a real chassis that carries 1000kg. That's why I am led to believe that hitting the ground will just make the whole car jump as opposed to a big car which would flex due to the weight and inertia.
I am not an expert in the real thing by any means. I am not an automotive engineer, I just go by a few things I know and experienced. That's why I asked for an explanation and some people provided very nicely. I am not 100% convinced but I am starting to see the logic behind it. I would love to experiment a bit on the matter if i get the chance and share my findings.

Many thanks to the guys who tried to clarify things. We shouldn't take the thread more off the topic though.
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That person probably didn't factor in that the mass of a 10th scale car is far less than a 10th of the mass of a 1/1 scale car

Imagine a full sized car that weighs 32 pounds, including the driver.
Remember, we are talking 3 dimensional scale (It's not a painting) 10*10*10!
1.5Kg *10 =150Kg *10 =1500Kg (typical car) and the grip we have available is far higher than anything for real.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:12 PM   #1683
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What about the old F1 cars that used active suspension, didn't it limit the suspension so it always kept a specified distance between road and chassis? It failing is what killed Senna right?
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:20 PM   #1684
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Wait is this no longer a t3 2011 thread?
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:21 PM   #1685
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I'm thinking to use fix pistons in shocks. What is good selection? 2 or 3 holes? What thickness for the shock oil? For running outdoor with good traction. thanks
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:42 PM   #1686
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Originally Posted by chensleyrc1 View Post
What about the old F1 cars that used active suspension, didn't it limit the suspension so it always kept a specified distance between road and chassis? It failing is what killed Senna right?
I believe Senna died from a steering column breaking.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:53 PM   #1687
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First of all i am not driving a train. if that's what you do for a living, that's your own problem go look at your face in the mirror and laugh but otherwise you can stick your sarcasm up your own rear. Maybe you should have considered a mechanical engineering degree like me.
Second, yes, on rare occasions the chassis can hit the ground even in real race cars. You cannot prevent it 100% of the time and there are many reasons why it can hit the ground but the general idea is to use suspension travel to prevent that.
I love how touchy some of you are on the subject. What's wrong? Someone pointed out a flaw in your precious little toy cars?
Please take this super self-diagnosed intelligence to the discussion forum.
This is the Xray T3 2011 forum. that is final. Period.
again kindly move your discussions to the general talk threads, AKA Chat Lounge

back to the T3 2011.
what tires is everyone having luck with.
Tried Solaris Mediums on carpet but Jacos Blues felt way better.
any suggestions
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:54 PM   #1688
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Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
I'm thinking to use fix pistons in shocks. What is good selection? 2 or 3 holes? What thickness for the shock oil? For running outdoor with good traction. thanks
I would use the 3 hole pistons and start with 500cst in the front and 300cst in the rear
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:08 PM   #1689
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can associated springs be used on the t3? I have an entire set and wanted to know...
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:11 PM   #1690
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Originally Posted by obi wun View Post
can associated springs be used on the t3? I have an entire set and wanted to know...
Not without ridicule!
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:14 PM   #1691
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Not without ridicule!
i can take it....is one longer than another..i have no idea
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:24 PM   #1692
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Originally Posted by olhipster1 View Post
Please take this super self-diagnosed intelligence to the discussion forum.
This is the Xray T3 2011 forum. that is final. Period.
again kindly move your discussions to the general talk threads, AKA Chat Lounge

back to the T3 2011.
what tires is everyone having luck with.
Tried Solaris Mediums on carpet but Jacos Blues felt way better.
any suggestions
Can we take this to the Tire discussion forum, this has nothing to do with the actual car!

Just Kidding!

On that question, JACO is all I'll run, unless I have to run another pending track regulations.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:34 PM   #1693
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Originally Posted by Con View Post
I would use the 3 hole pistons and start with 500cst in the front and 300cst in the rear
Outdoors I always run the same oil front and rear. The car never feels right harder at the front on asphalt. 3 hole pistons are the go, 1.1mm holes are also a good option.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:35 PM   #1694
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Default lol

too funny
..
2011 Kit setup worked very well with Jacos..
but the minute I put on new Solaris setup went to shizz...

Anyone have any suggestions on what to change setup wise to adapt to the tires.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:04 PM   #1695
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Originally Posted by olhipster1 View Post
too funny
..
2011 Kit setup worked very well with Jacos..
but the minute I put on new Solaris setup went to shizz...

Anyone have any suggestions on what to change setup wise to adapt to the tires.
I run both at my local track and have found that for me, it take about 8 runs on Solaris compared to 2-3 on Jacos to break them in to where my setups work well. The Solaris are a bit harder tire and I feel they wear way better in the long run.

I run Paul's Cleveland setup mostly but when running Solaris I add 0.5 degrees of -camber to the front and rear during the break-in period and sometimes even a little more rear toe in + 0.5 depending on track conditions.

I also find that I dope the rear tires a little longer when using Solaris untill the traction comes up.

Let me know how it turns out.
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