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Old 09-12-2010, 05:08 PM   #1
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Default BRING BACK THE BRUSHES!!!

i hate to say it but i dont think brushless is saving on-road electric TC and seems like it is going backwards . . . add timing on the esc now limited 17.5 etc.

how many people would like to just see stock 27t BRUSHED LOCKED endbell come back along with 19t BRUSHED LOCKED endbell and let mod guys open it up with open brushless and open esc's???

u go to the big race and everyone in the stock and 19t class is on the same motor . . .

i am i not just saying this cause i couldn't part with my fantom lathe . . .
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Old 09-12-2010, 05:38 PM   #2
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i dont ever want to cut a com or change brushes again...however i did like it better without the timing changes on the controllers...bring back the 0 degree speed controllers
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Old 09-12-2010, 05:44 PM   #3
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Comm truing and brushed motors are for MOA crawlers.
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Old 09-12-2010, 05:46 PM   #4
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Get's my vote! There should be a class for brushed motors. Yes the brushless motors are better overall but you need an esc to go with it just as you need a charger for the LiPo's. Here we race the F1's with a 540 silvercan motor and they go like stink even with a $22 esc. We are hoping to have a mod class for the new electrics for those that want more speed. And, a new dirt oval is coming here which means a 540 class for the rj speed sprint cars ($109 bucks) and a mod class for them also. I like cheap racing more than I like expensive winning....next!
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdcopbdcop View Post
i dont ever want to cut a com or change brushes again...however i did like it better without the timing changes on the controllers...bring back the 0 degree speed controllers
Exactly how I feel. I don't miss the "stuff" that came along with racing brushed motors, but the timing advance has really twisted "stock classes into something just short of mod.

You have further problems now with companies trying to push what their esc and motor can produce and still be within the class limits. I'm trying to get touring classes locally with a fixed esc/motor combo. Sucks for the sponsored guys that can't use that product, but otherwise it's really not equal equipment wise.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:09 PM   #6
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At the 3 big races I have been to since BL became mainstream there has been quite a variety of motors...not just 1. Also the racing has been much closer than ever before. The peformance difference between average Joe's equipment and the big spenders or sponsored drivers is very small compared to the brushed motor days. And the motors last a lot longer. No thanks...going back to brushed would be a hugh step backwards.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:10 PM   #7
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There is an easy fix. Abolish the stock class, everyone race modified.

Many will need to get honest with themselves about their skills and how much power they can actually handle, along with accepting that an A-main is going to be harder to achieve and racing will be healthier for it. Look at nitro.

There is not, and never will be a compelling reason to bring back brushed motors.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:16 PM   #8
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"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."

Ok, I like that one.

I have raced stock and mod. I seem to like stock better, I don't know why, I just do. I guess for the type of racing we do here it works for us. When I go to the bigger races I will bring what I need to be competetive. Then I go home and put the car back the way it was.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
There is an easy fix. Abolish the stock class, everyone race modified.

Many will need to get honest with themselves about their skills and how much power they can actually handle, along with accepting that an A-main is going to be harder to achieve and racing will be healthier for it. Look at nitro.

There is not, and never will be a compelling reason to bring back brushed motors.
Ive tried this theory on this website, I got a lot of hate.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:51 PM   #10
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In my time I have wound modifieds, built stocks and 19 Turn motors, soldered brushes, balanced armatures, aligned brush hoods, trued comms, shimmed armatures, broken in bushings, polished armatures, etc... and that was only in the four or so years I worked as the lead at Team Brood There were even more rituals at the track.

The only reason I'm even considering racing again is because of brushless. It gives you more time to enjoy what is hands down the best part about R/C, hanging out and BSing with people at the track. Leaving my comm lathe and soldering iron at home is more exciting to me than getting to rip on a Lipo and 5.5T for the first time.

And Davidka is right, get rid of all the divisions and open up one touring class. I couldn't believe looking at the IIC results and seeing that there are even more touring classes than when I left racing it seems. 19T was the beginning of the end...

One class will make getting into the A-main an achievement again, not an expectation.
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:00 PM   #11
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Open Sedan, it can be big if people would just buy the idea. Just like Gas Sedan, you know what you have into it. Spend a lot of money on on ESC's, motors, tires, and you can still lose. Spend a little money, drive some, and maybe you can win.
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:15 PM   #12
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I guarantee you guys if you put on a race with open sedan and open 1/12 only, you'll have about 30 guys in each class. That's not an attempt to put down what you're talking about, but it's realistic.

Reading all these threads that rehash the same discussion every 3 months, it seems like there's this group of people who feel the need to tell everyone to buck up and run mod. That's a nice sentiment, but the reason a lot of guys run slower classes is not to win, or make the A, but because it's the fastest thing they can drive within their ability. So the problem with just running what you can get around the track is that now the fast guys coming up on these dudes with unreal closing speed.

If all the fast guys who have the ability actually ran mod, maybe we wouldn't be having these discussions.

Also electric is not nitro. The nitro cars don't accelerate like electric, which is a lot of the reason the electric cars are harder to drive at mod speeds. The reason there are 1/8 buggies everywhere is that just about anyone can get them around the track. I didn't say at race pace, just around the track. Give a proper mod sedan to the average guy and you'll have a sedan kit in about 30 seconds.
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:19 PM   #13
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OMG, just the thought of spending hours cutting comms and trying every different brush and spring combination made by man brings shivers up my spine! I'm not so sure I like all the "advancments" made with the ESC's of today though. Maybe somebody needs to make a spec ESC and motor combination with zero or at least the same amount of timing?
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:20 PM   #14
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I've suggested open sedan at our club, and in general in our country. We have a fairly small racing community, and with 3 touring classes, there is often only 5 or 6 cars on the track for each one. It would make more sense to just fill the track, in order of your lap times, not your motor.
Still, there is a lot o fobjection. Mostly from drivers who know they're not fast, but think they are and don't want to be in the B-Main by results instead of being in the A-main by default.
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
That's a nice sentiment, but the reason a lot of guys run slower classes is not to win, or make the A, but because it's the fastest thing they can drive within their ability. So the problem with just running what you can get around the track is that now the fast guys coming up on these dudes with unreal closing speed.
I wouldn't tell anyone to run something that is outside their ability to control, and nobody has any business telling anyone else how to spend their money. But...

The guys that are good are going to get around the average guy just fine. I'm not saying that the "one class only' thing should be carried over to local clubs, I would almost insist that it didn't. Local clubs should maintain a novice class for those guys that are just getting used to going in a straight line, but these are not the guys going to big races...

The guys going to big races can drive well enough to allow another car to pass, and I'm going to venture out into left field and say that the guy coming up with all that speed has the ability to pass a slower car.

The differences in speed and/or driving ability are all fixed after 1st round resort, it's that simple. But what if your a fast guy and you break in the first round and thus get resorted to the back of the pack you say?? Well there are a few ways I think that could be fixed. 1) is recognize the format and understand the importance of making it through the first round, don't drive balls out until you are in a heat that allows for it (qualifying strategy), or the more logical option.. 2) resort based on fast lap times, be it fastest 3 laps, 4, 5, something to give a total time to provide an accurate resort but does not count out that guy that broke.

With the race software I'm sure is available now I know that it is more than feasible to do a first round resort based on groupings of fastest laps, and then revert to the 5-6min or whatever time attack qualifying that we are used to.
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