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Old 09-16-2010, 03:26 PM   #136
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here is how I see it..Unless ESC's and motors are handed out at a race it will never be even..take a 17.5 send it out to a company they will mod motor so called spec it or whatever term the use.. change bearing add-remove shims.. change rotor more than likely a larger one .. then we has the esc's a timing adjustment with about 20 degrees in temp and 2 degrees and wow I got a motor that will no go from ie.. 20,000 rpms to 27,000 rpm ..When I used brushed it was mostly the speed control until the a company used slanted brushes and got major torque with great rpms outa a 27 turn brushed motor..Played Pro paintball a few years back Full time 5 days a week.. seen the same electronics help a soso person look better until against pure skill--seen cheats codes ramp-ups high pressure 2nd dairy valves so on..it is what it is.. when a team person or whoever wants to cheat to try and win they will always do it no matter what..I will always try to obey the rules period.. TnTpoof
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:26 PM   #137
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Do we? I'm 39 with a good job. I do this as a hobby, not as a stab at being a paid RC car driver.
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I get what you're saying...really. But I guess we differ on how we define "fame". If fame is selling RC products, or being in hobby magazines, then sure there are "famous" RC drivers. (And Adam Drakes wife is nice looking btw ) But being RC famous isn't a goal of mine.
That's great for you guys. You will probably lead much happier lives than the others. The point wasn't that EVERYONE was like that, the point is that there are MANY people like that. And it only takes one.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:36 PM   #138
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There's a lot of far-fetched "what if" scenarios that could circumvent any level of tech and allow people to cheat. I think the best we can hope for is to try and tech away anything racers can do on their own. If the manufacturers want to facilitate cheating, which will always be possible, then you give them the death penalty and ban their products from sanctioned racing.

Probably the best option is to keep the "spec" classes slow, like non-sponsored slow so there's not much incentive to cheat. Then make super stock open esc (with spec motor) and mod open for both. Yes, 3 classes.
I wouldn't consider that "far-fetched" given the example of Audi did happen. Also in a much smaller industry that also happened in paintball. Cheat modes were developed in the electronics that could be enabled and disabled by specific trigger pull sequences. So while on the field it was cheating but every time it went through tech it would pass.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:42 PM   #139
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I wouldn't consider that "far-fetched" given the example of Audi did happen. Also in a much smaller industry that also happened in paintball. Cheat modes were developed in the electronics that could be enabled and disabled by specific trigger pull sequences. So while on the field it was cheating but every time it went through tech it would pass.
I'm just curious as I know very little about paintball. When the cheat codes first showed up, do you know if they came from the manufacturers or from individual players?
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:45 PM   #140
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Given some time and the inclination I could do this. Reverse engineering is a science and can be done but, seeing as I just don't feel like doing this I will have to settle foe wadding the guy I catch doing it. Much more satisfaction this way also.....
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:27 PM   #141
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I'm just curious as I know very little about paintball. When the cheat codes first showed up, do you know if they came from the manufacturers or from individual players?
I believe it started with aftermarket manufacturers making aftermarket electronics for the triggers. They became so popular and so impossible to tech that the rules eventually had to be changed to allow the cheats and gun manufacturers had to start making boards of their own that had the new modes.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:32 PM   #142
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Call me a naysayer all ya want.....I told you this would happen. Brushless is fine, but a lot of you went to great reaches to make all these claims why it was the savior of RC racing.......should of stuck to pretty much the only true one, they are way less to take care of.....
Anyone who thought everything would be exactly the same has never raced before. It's racing and someone will have some advantage. You seem to need a gold star or a big trophy for being the smartest guy ever.

Brushless has made things much better in the majority, but yeah there are problems. At least things are settling down somewhat, and there are some common sense solutions.

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All I know is, recession or not......we sure had bigger turn outs when everything was brushed

Later EddieO
You're really going to say that? Really? I hate to break it to you but things suck right now, and programmable esc or not, $500 sedans are not the easiest thing to sell right now. Add in the complexity of adjusting the car correctly, and suddenly slash trucks look like a lot of fun.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:39 PM   #143
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The cheat in paintball, which is a much smaller hobby, started when electronic trigger guns came out.....

The angel was one of the first, and the biggest name......I have one myself. You could put it in two modes, single shot or triple burst.....but no full auto, which was outlawed.....some guy figured out how to put it in full auto.....they made new circuit boards. The boards were outlawed. Another guy figured out how to do it on the stock board......so they started watching for it and confiscating guns to test......people got in trouble. Then some guy figured out how to program it to reset with a few trigger pulls.....literally fast as lightning....

Now keep in mind, a good player can pull that damn trigger and easily shoot 10+ balls a second.......you think that would be enough, nope.......full auto 20+ balls a second and even then we didn't have ball feeders that could feed that fast.....but people still did it.

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Old 09-16-2010, 07:58 PM   #144
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Industry has already looked at the higher turns, but you run out of room in a 540 size can. Cant go higher than 25.5 at this time.

now I cant wait until someone hacks or changes the Novak so that it doesnt light up when running timing. then they add 5 or 10 deg so they are just slightly quicker than everyone else. I think it will be the easiest ESC to change as all you have to do is turn off the light, not turn it on.

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Can't we just specify a slower motor, 21.5, 25.5…. 40.5, whatever is needed to slow stock down appropriately? Then the boosted ESC is a non issue. About everybody already has it, the ESCs seem to be only getting closer, another year or less and I suspect they will all be quite close.

Either way, I think for most they are already much closer than brushed ever was, at least for most club racing.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:06 PM   #145
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That's great for you guys. You will probably lead much happier lives than the others. The point wasn't that EVERYONE was like that, the point is that there are MANY people like that. And it only takes one.
Nice strawman. Last I saw no one was discussing personal happiness nor did I imply the poster meant "everyone" though I do interpret "majority" to imply greater than 50%. He seemed pretty articulate and I bet if he meant "many" he would have said it. Either way based on what I see in my small world this is not really the case and I even threw in a little smiley hopefully showing that while I disagreed it was all good. Guess I should have stuck to the passive agressive cheap shot instead.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:11 PM   #146
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:13 PM   #147
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Now keep in mind, a good player can pull that damn trigger and easily shoot 10+ balls a second.......you think that would be enough, nope.......full auto 20+ balls a second and even then we didn't have ball feeders that could feed that fast.....but people still did it.

Later EddieO
Good players were pushing 18-20 balls a second even without full auto. I was slow at round 16.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:50 PM   #148
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Industry has already looked at the higher turns, but you run out of room in a 540 size can. Cant go higher than 25.5 at this time.

now I cant wait until someone hacks or changes the Novak so that it doesnt light up when running timing. then they add 5 or 10 deg so they are just slightly quicker than everyone else. I think it will be the easiest ESC to change as all you have to do is turn off the light, not turn it on.
So a triple wind is out of the question eh? Makes sense though. So is a 25.5 boosted slow enough? What about an idea Iíve seen earlier, go to a 380 or whatever size can? Granted there might be bolt pattern issues and such, but there ought to be some way to hit the reset button without all of the fuss of the speedo issues. I figure that proverbial horse has already left the barn. Especially if all you need is a burnt out light, yikes!
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:57 PM   #149
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Anyone who thought everything would be exactly the same has never raced before. It's racing and someone will have some advantage. ...

Brushless has made things much better in the majority, but yeah there are problems. At least things are settling down somewhat, and there are some common sense solutions.
+1

but if some luddite really wants to keep using his com lathe, then why try to stop him? personally, i have better things to do with my spare time, like typing on this keyboard!
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:45 PM   #150
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Industry has already looked at the higher turns, but you run out of room in a 540 size can. Cant go higher than 25.5 at this time.
That doesn't sound right. I rewound a novak motor years ago to a 7.5 with 4 parallel strands of 19 AWG. So technically if you use just 1 strand of 19 AWG you'd be looking at 30 turns. Use even smaller wire and get even more turns.
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