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Old 10-31-2011, 07:52 PM   #2146
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Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
For a med/high bite indoor carpet track, do we want maximum chassis flex or not? Just wondering whether I should give the split blocks a try.

Bummer that this information is not provided on the setup sheets (split blocks or standard).
TBH, I can't tell you, as I haven't raced on carpet ever with the 7, and at all for almost 2 years now! I can only go off the high bite asphalt track here, and the car is faster with the flex than not. It isn't as easy to drive, but it is faster when you get used to it.... but asphalt grips differently to rug.
All I can suggest is to give them a try and see, although bear in mind, for full effect, you'll want to try cutting the top deck and motor mount, and removing the steering brace too... *wobbly*
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:19 PM   #2147
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TBH, I can't tell you, as I haven't raced on carpet ever with the 7, and at all for almost 2 years now! I can only go off the high bite asphalt track here, and the car is faster with the flex than not. It isn't as easy to drive, but it is faster when you get used to it.... but asphalt grips differently to rug.
All I can suggest is to give them a try and see, although bear in mind, for full effect, you'll want to try cutting the top deck and motor mount, and removing the steering brace too... *wobbly*
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
For a med/high bite indoor carpet track, do we want maximum chassis flex or not? Just wondering whether I should give the split blocks a try.

Bummer that this information is not provided on the setup sheets (split blocks or standard).
I have tried running split blocks on med bite carpet and I can tell you that the car is faster on hotlap, but really removes a bunch of the consistency that I feel with the 417 design. I think if you can control the car then the split blocks can be faster, but it will make the car harder to drive as noted by Ed...
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:44 AM   #2148
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Random observation time...

I've just received some Yeah Racing ECS driveshafts, and given the talk about them recently, here's some thoughts...

Firstly, spring steel, which is nice and light... (and will match the Roche outdrives ).
The dogbone section is surprisingly thin... hopefully they will be strong enough, but I'm pretty sure the overall weight is less than a std steel CVD.
The design looks good, with seemingly no thin bearing required. They use a smaller diameter ball on the dogbone coupler input, which I guess helps for clearance too.
Also look very very similar to the Arrowmax shafts, with one main change being that the drive pins are 90 to the cross pins, unlike the Arrowmax and standard CVD's, which all line up. I like this, as it (theoretically) should distribute loaded more evenly during turning...

Still, looking forward to fitting them and testing out, hopefully next weekend if my other parts turn up in time.

Random observation over...
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:01 AM   #2149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Random observation time...

I've just received some Yeah Racing ECS driveshafts, and given the talk about them recently, here's some thoughts...

Firstly, spring steel, which is nice and light... (and will match the Roche outdrives ).
The dogbone section is surprisingly thin... hopefully they will be strong enough, but I'm pretty sure the overall weight is less than a std steel CVD.
The design looks good, with seemingly no thin bearing required. They use a smaller diameter ball on the dogbone coupler input, which I guess helps for clearance too.
Also look very very similar to the Arrowmax shafts, with one main change being that the drive pins are 90 to the cross pins, unlike the Arrowmax and standard CVD's, which all line up. I like this, as it (theoretically) should distribute loaded more evenly during turning...

Still, looking forward to fitting them and testing out, hopefully next weekend if my other parts turn up in time.

Random observation over...
good luck with them. Mine broke just before the ball after 2 packs and a slight run over a berm. That's even after rebuilding the joints and packing them with AW grease before running them... Still on the look out for a reliable set of cvd's
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:50 AM   #2150
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417X in RC World magazine.
If you check out my blog and click on it you find a bigger version of this scan.

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Old 11-01-2011, 10:57 AM   #2151
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good luck with them. Mine broke just before the ball after 2 packs and a slight run over a berm. That's even after rebuilding the joints and packing them with AW grease before running them... Still on the look out for a reliable set of cvd's
hmmm... not so postitive then! I'll give them a try anyway... although looking at the ETS, looks like Viktor was running Tam prototypes... (so they'll be out in a year then!)
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:06 AM   #2152
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Originally Posted by VooDooPH View Post
good luck with them. Mine broke just before the ball after 2 packs and a slight run over a berm. That's even after rebuilding the joints and packing them with AW grease before running them... Still on the look out for a reliable set of cvd's
I've been running mine for over 3months now and still haven't broke them yet. I have taken out the grub screws and covered the hole with heatshrink.

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hmmm... not so postitive then! I'll give them a try anyway... although looking at the ETS, looks like Viktor was running Tam prototypes... (so they'll be out in a year then!)
They look exactly like the Roche dcj's that are coming out:


(Taken from Max Ma's facebook page)
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:59 PM   #2153
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I've been running mine for over 3months now and still haven't broke them yet. I have taken out the grub screws and covered the hole with heatshrink.



They look exactly like the Roche dcj's that are coming out:


(Taken from Max Ma's facebook page)
Want!!!!
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:37 PM   #2154
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
TBH, I can't tell you, as I haven't raced on carpet ever with the 7, and at all for almost 2 years now! I can only go off the high bite asphalt track here, and the car is faster with the flex than not. It isn't as easy to drive, but it is faster when you get used to it.... but asphalt grips differently to rug.
All I can suggest is to give them a try and see, although bear in mind, for full effect, you'll want to try cutting the top deck and motor mount, and removing the steering brace too... *wobbly*
What is the recommended screw size to use with the split blocks? 3x6 or 3x8?

Also, what are the drawbacks to using normal CVD's as opposed to the DCJ's that everyone is talking about?

Thx!!
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:44 PM   #2155
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Want!!!!
Agreed... really like the Roche stuff
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:56 PM   #2156
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Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
What is the recommended screw size to use with the split blocks? 3x6 or 3x8?

Also, what are the drawbacks to using normal CVD's as opposed to the DCJ's that everyone is talking about?

Thx!!
3x6 I think, but 3x8 works fine as well.

Normal CVD's have a limit to the working range of the angle they can turn. This is because they are not a true CVD (the CV part refering to constant velocity!), so the driveshafts speed up and slow down very quickly during their rotation. At high steering angles, this is what creates the chatter common on the front.
If using a diff or one-way, its not noticeable, simply as the velocity differences between the outdrives is compensated for by allowing one side to spin faster than the other. The effect is still there however.
However, with a Spool, the outside wheel is going to spinning at the same speed as the inside wheel, and everything is bound together. This acts to amplify the effect of any chatter, especially at high lock.

The DCJ/ECS/LCD (Losi were the first with it for their JRXS) is still not a true CVD (look at the litemodz CVS for one of those, if you dare), but reduces the angles that the driveshafts see in operation. By effectively halving the maximum angle, it drops the joints back into a reasonably effective operating range, reducing chatter.

So why does it help? Simple... Chatter can (as has been disscussed recently here, with Nilks' question) cause the front end to bind up, and "jump" when cornering. If the inner wheel is spinning faster than traction allows (as happens with a spool), and then there is bind up because of the CVD angle, there will be a sudden loss of grip... which if your using a high lock angle, your most likely in the middle of a corner, so it happens at the point where you least want it too!! This is why the cars tend to "wash out" from the apex at higher steering angles.
Using the DCJ's should help to stop this, in effect increasing steering in the middle of the turn. Should make the front smoother as well, and reduce the spool effect.... in theory

HiH
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:31 PM   #2157
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
3x6 I think, but 3x8 works fine as well.

Normal CVD's have a limit to the working range of the angle they can turn. This is because they are not a true CVD (the CV part refering to constant velocity!), so the driveshafts speed up and slow down very quickly during their rotation. At high steering angles, this is what creates the chatter common on the front.
If using a diff or one-way, its not noticeable, simply as the velocity differences between the outdrives is compensated for by allowing one side to spin faster than the other. The effect is still there however.
However, with a Spool, the outside wheel is going to spinning at the same speed as the inside wheel, and everything is bound together. This acts to amplify the effect of any chatter, especially at high lock.

The DCJ/ECS/LCD (Losi were the first with it for their JRXS) is still not a true CVD (look at the litemodz CVS for one of those, if you dare), but reduces the angles that the driveshafts see in operation. By effectively halving the maximum angle, it drops the joints back into a reasonably effective operating range, reducing chatter.

So why does it help? Simple... Chatter can (as has been disscussed recently here, with Nilks' question) cause the front end to bind up, and "jump" when cornering. If the inner wheel is spinning faster than traction allows (as happens with a spool), and then there is bind up because of the CVD angle, there will be a sudden loss of grip... which if your using a high lock angle, your most likely in the middle of a corner, so it happens at the point where you least want it too!! This is why the cars tend to "wash out" from the apex at higher steering angles.
Using the DCJ's should help to stop this, in effect increasing steering in the middle of the turn. Should make the front smoother as well, and reduce the spool effect.... in theory

HiH
Ed
Appreciate the quick response!

Just tried to remove the steering bridge...ran into a little trouble due to the fact that I used thread lock....in any case, I would assume I would need to put shims in place of the bridge? of the same thickness?

Thanks!!
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:37 PM   #2158
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
3x6 I think, but 3x8 works fine as well.

Normal CVD's have a limit to the working range of the angle they can turn. This is because they are not a true CVD (the CV part refering to constant velocity!), so the driveshafts speed up and slow down very quickly during their rotation. At high steering angles, this is what creates the chatter common on the front.
If using a diff or one-way, its not noticeable, simply as the velocity differences between the outdrives is compensated for by allowing one side to spin faster than the other. The effect is still there however.
However, with a Spool, the outside wheel is going to spinning at the same speed as the inside wheel, and everything is bound together. This acts to amplify the effect of any chatter, especially at high lock.

The DCJ/ECS/LCD (Losi were the first with it for their JRXS) is still not a true CVD (look at the litemodz CVS for one of those, if you dare), but reduces the angles that the driveshafts see in operation. By effectively halving the maximum angle, it drops the joints back into a reasonably effective operating range, reducing chatter.

So why does it help? Simple... Chatter can (as has been disscussed recently here, with Nilks' question) cause the front end to bind up, and "jump" when cornering. If the inner wheel is spinning faster than traction allows (as happens with a spool), and then there is bind up because of the CVD angle, there will be a sudden loss of grip... which if your using a high lock angle, your most likely in the middle of a corner, so it happens at the point where you least want it too!! This is why the cars tend to "wash out" from the apex at higher steering angles.
Using the DCJ's should help to stop this, in effect increasing steering in the middle of the turn. Should make the front smoother as well, and reduce the spool effect.... in theory

HiH
Ed
Any thoughts on the Spec R version of the DCJ? So, I guess you'd recommend using DCJ's in any case (whether using spool of diff)?
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:42 PM   #2159
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I just started running the 417 on low to med bite carpet with box setup and have noticed that the car would kick out on hard accelleration out of corner. I am suspecting maybe its due to the rear gear diff. Is there rule on what CST oils should be used and does anyone know what the kit diff oil viscosity.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:05 PM   #2160
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Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
Appreciate the quick response!

Just tried to remove the steering bridge...ran into a little trouble due to the fact that I used thread lock....in any case, I would assume I would need to put shims in place of the bridge? of the same thickness?

Thanks!!
If you mean shims on top, then yes...I find some countersunk washers do a good job, or just a wider diameter spacer and normal screw.
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