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Old 06-20-2004, 09:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phatkat
But to what degree? Not criminally, should there be an incident. It's not Wal Mart's fault if anyone goes into their store and pulls a TV down on their head. It is not negligent if a kid brings himself into a business and is injured, when his parents are unaware of his location.
Sure, not criminally, but civil liability? Hell yeah. 50% at least. Just wait for a kid to pass out and incur a $1000 hospital bill. I'm sure the track would not be happy to pay $500 for that incident.

Your Walmart hypo doesn't really fit because Walmart can't expect that some dolt will be pulling down TV on kids everyday during business hours. But Tracks sure can expect that racers will be using Paragon everyday during business hours. And tracks sure can expect that kids will frequent the track....hell, an RC track is like bait to most kids.

So to protect themselves from civil liability, indoor tracks can either take up the tediuous task of making kids/parents sign waivers, and keep records of all these documents...

or

simply ban the offending chemicals

Sure, I bet there's thousand of tracks out there that practice neither of these precautions. But it doesn't mean they are safe and clear from liability...just lucky.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:28 PM   #47
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The same effect could be had by posting a sign proclaiming the owners liability, or lack thereof. Works the same as a posted retun policy, or a falling rocks sign. That way, each side of the situation is covered.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:30 PM   #48
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Yes, Doggy...But who wouldn't look where they are looking

One of the reasons I got into this hobby is because I looked where I was going BAM! I found a $20, BAM! I found a $5...Recently, BAM! I found a race fee.

Unfortunetely the court of all assumes we are all retarded. This is not the way it should be. People know the dangers of whats going on before they take part in it. I was recently in a discussion with my dad on the same matter. He said if my sister (who is not the brightest 4 year old there is) got hit by an r/c car at a racetrack & she got hurt he'd sue. THAT IS STUPID. What kind of irresponsible parent wouldn't keep an eye on their baby and let it get hit by an R/C car? Nobody has morale anymore.

Phatkat. Were the loosers in this because we are in the land where hypocrasy and mental retardation runs rampid

jeffreylin: LOL
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:33 PM   #49
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Didn't someone do a chemical composition of Paragon a while back? Its been a while since I saw it (and mostly glanced over it), but from what I remember Paragon was (chemically speaking) safer than most household cleaners and such. It does have a strong smell, but strong smell doesn't necessarly mean its "dangerous". Likewise, lack of smell doesn't mean its "safe", anyone heard of carbon monoxide for example?

I'm sure someone has the link to what I'm talking about, I had it a long time ago but my harddrive died last week and years of bookmarks died with it.....
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:35 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phatkat
The same effect could be had by posting a sign proclaiming the owners liability, or lack thereof. Works the same as a posted retun policy, or a falling rocks sign. That way, each side of the situation is covered.

Relying on signs alone is dangerous because it can be argued that the kid did not read the sign, the kid cannot read on an adult level, or the sign is not legible.
Trust me, I know cases where posted signs wer enot enough to escape liability.

That's why signed waivers by both parent/kid is stronger to hold up in court.

Like I said before, I don't make the rules...just expressing a warning.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:40 PM   #51
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and this is what our society has sunken to. I'm glad I'm not running a racetrack trying to make a living off of it with all these lawsuit crazy people running around. Someone said it a little higher up here and it fits perfectly, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! If you don't like the smell then don't race at that track, it's that simple.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Black Kat
People know the dangers of whats going on before they take part in it.
A spectator is supposed to know that what they breath in at the track can make them almost pass out?

"Occupier’s duty

3. (1) An occupier of premises owes a duty to take such care as in all the circumstances of the case is reasonable to see that persons entering on the premises, and the property brought on the premises by those persons are reasonably safe while on the premises."
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:47 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by 403forbidden
kid did not read the sign, the kid cannot read on an adult level, or the sign is not legible.
Is it the tracks fault the kid is retarted?

It is not the tracks fault that anyone is either retarted, stupid or just plain ignorant. Is it a video game manufacteur's fault if they didn't check every kid in the world's medical records to see if any of them are sensitive to flashing lights or fast motion images?

If the kid is stupid or if they are extremely sensitive to chemicals it is their parents responsability to make sure they don't end up there. Unfortunetly a lot of todays parents don't care about kids until theres money on the line.

Seriously Matt, No wonder we have barely any tracks around here. Were in California!
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by fatdoggy
A spectator is supposed to know that what they breath in at the track can make them almost pass out?

"Occupier’s duty

3. (1) An occupier of premises owes a duty to take such care as in all the circumstances of the case is reasonable to see that persons entering on the premises, and the property brought on the premises by those persons are reasonably safe while on the premises."
Exactly right-REASONABLY SAFE. These chemicals are reasonably safe.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:52 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Black Kat
Is it the tracks fault the kid is retarted?

It is not the tracks fault that anyone is either retarted, stupid or just plain ignorant. Is it a video game manufacteur's fault if they didn't check every kid in the world's medical records to see if any of them are sensitive to flashing lights or fast motion images?

If the kid is stupid or if they are extremely sensitive to chemicals it is their parents responsability to make sure they don't end up there. Unfortunetly a lot of todays parents don't care about kids until theres money on the line.

Seriously Matt, No wonder we have barely any tracks around here. Were in California!

Are you directing these comments to me? If so, why? Like I said before, I don't make the rules, just expressing a warning.

Furthermore, the law holds minors to a lower level of reasoning ability than adults. That's why the law might consider a warning danger sign sufficient notice to an adult, but insufficient notice to a minor. It has nothing to do with "retardedness".

Thus, it is safer for a track to keep records of waivewrs signed by both parent/kid...or simply banning the offending checmical.

Last edited by 403forbidden; 06-20-2004 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:52 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Howard
and this is what our society has sunken to. I'm glad I'm not running a racetrack trying to make a living off of it with all these lawsuit crazy people running around. Someone said it a little higher up here and it fits perfectly, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! If you don't like the smell then don't race at that track, it's that simple.
I am not saying that I would ever sue a race track, all I'm saying is that they are liable if people who do not know about the risks and who do not assume the risks are harmed.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:54 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by fatdoggy
A spectator is supposed to know that what they breath in at the track can make them almost pass out?
YES! They should take a visit to make sure its a safe place. If it is stay there. If they don't think so LEAVE

If I go to a Nascar race am I honestly gonna think "Gee, I'm not going to breathe in fumes" If I get a courtside seat to an NBA game am I gonna think "Gee if a ball heads out of bounds directly at me Shaq, who is right there is NOT going to dive and get it" Am I honestly gonna think "Gee if I set my genitals on a freaking chain-saw and turn it on I'm NOT gonna get hurt"

While those might be more obvious it is the spectators responsability to either leave or put up with it. If the spectator feels their saftey is in danger. THEY SHOULD LEAVE or be willing to DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:57 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phatkat
Exactly right-REASONABLY SAFE. These chemicals are reasonably safe.
And yet I just read that somebody almost passed-out(reasonably safe?).
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:57 PM   #59
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Fact is, it is NOT ANYONE'S FAULT FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S STUPIDITY OR IGNORANCE OR NEGLIGENCE, EXCEPT THE STUPID ONES THEMSELVES. Our judicial system is being systemstically buttraped by overly liberal crybabies(babyboomers ), and it's being allowed to happen.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by fatdoggy
And yet I just read that somebody almost passed-out(reasonably safe?).
Someone's hypersensitivity cannot be forseen nor prepared for. Odds are that this person knew that they had a weakness for chemicals. Of course they probably won't say that......
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