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Old 11-21-2015, 02:09 PM   #1756
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M05 has higher sales. They will release and M06 probably at a later date, perhaps by February for Nuremberg.

They have announced an M06 Pumpkin Lowride with polycarbonate body! loong sigh...
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Old 11-23-2015, 11:14 PM   #1757
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Default we have a totally different experience...

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For carpet, when you start to traction roll, you need to go with thicker oil and stiffer springs, try 70 wt oil up front white springs 40 shore tires. Blue rear 36 shore 60 wt oil. (Shimizu with pink sweep inserts) you can also do Sweep 40 and 33. Next reduce ride height 3-4 mm. Also, do not use toe out unless you need LESS steering, in fact try 0.5 toe IN. Another trick is to add center weight once the car is traction rolling, (under battery)
I suppose it might work. Best thing to do is to try it out yourself.
We race the Tamiya Asia Cup (TAC) here in singapore on carpet and tamiya tires (M-grips work the best on our carpet).
We have all tried what you mentioned (harder springs and heavier oils) but that lead to a lot more grip such that the cars started to be really twitchy and hard to drive. We found that giving the car some roll when grip is high allows some "give" to prevent excessive pressure on the tires that lead to grip. perhaps the fact that the tires are 60D have high walls and more give or different types of rubber, then the sweep or shimizu tires have something to do with it.

We also tried the reverse, softer springs and lighter oils when grip is low, but that lead to a lot fo fishtailing and spinouts... weird? it sure is! due to my experience with off road and touring cars... I had to relearn a lot racing the TAC races with my m06.

I agree with the toe angles though.

-Alexander
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During heats, i use durex for both front and rear, with Hard inserts.

Sorex, i meant Sorex.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:12 AM   #1758
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in addition: to prevent grip rolls, a good choice is to glue the front tires on the sides... this is the most helpful tuning for us here and our TEC Races...
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:05 AM   #1759
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Default Grip roll

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Originally Posted by Aitutaki View Post
in addition: to prevent grip rolls, a good choice is to glue the front tires on the sides... this is the most helpful tuning for us here and our TEC Races...
In our local TAC (Tamiya Asia Cup) races, the race organizers are very particular about not using glue on the sidewalls or indeed, on any part of the thread. The work around for some M05 drivers is to use a small bead of high viscosity silicon oil on the outside thread (I find this very inconsistent as the silicon gets rubbed off as your race and grip roll becomes more likely as the race nears it's 5 min point.

When using the M06, I like to juice up the whole rear tire and just the inside half of the front. I find that I have no grip roll issues and the car rails.

If there is a editable setup sheet, I'd be delighted to share my setup (carpet). I find that I'm not as competitive on asphalt, with whatever tire combo...

The m06 manual states that the soft springs are front and hard springs in the rear... I can attest that this works well. the hard springs actually make the car grip better (on carpet) then softer springs do.

I play around with the roll centre and camber to get the (out of turn/on power) grip i need.

Also, because m06 drivers are allowed to use any tamiya shell (unlike m05 drivers who MUST use high roofed shells... actually, they all use swift shells... yawn), I have found a few shells that work really well with the m06. Datsun 280 (my fav, cos it so retro cool), alpine, s800 (to some extent... must use front spoiler!).

I have yet to try other shells but I've tried my friend's m06 with honda crx, swift and s800(med wheelbase) which did not handle as well.

-Alexander
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During heats, i use durex for both front and rear, with Hard inserts.

Sorex, i meant Sorex.
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:27 AM   #1760
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Who ever needs the editable set up sheet, send me a pm with your email address. The file restrictions won't allow me to Upload it as an attachment

Last edited by Raman; 11-26-2015 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 11-26-2015, 09:36 AM   #1761
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Alex, what ride height are you running? What degree rear toe in?
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Old 11-26-2015, 10:14 AM   #1762
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funked1 was kind enough to load the pdf file on google drive.. here is the link

https://goo.gl/bhYfHJ
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:14 PM   #1763
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Hi Alexander, I raced in Singapore last Sept for the Asia Finals, was running the PacMan car.

To fight grip roll I think most of us brake every corner. With high cg and narrow track and big tires, tuning it out by setup is hard. Braking cures it
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:25 AM   #1764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foampervert View Post
In our local TAC (Tamiya Asia Cup) races, the race organizers are very particular about not using glue on the sidewalls or indeed, on any part of the thread. The work around for some M05 drivers is to use a small bead of high viscosity silicon oil on the outside thread (I find this very inconsistent as the silicon gets rubbed off as your race and grip roll becomes more likely as the race nears it's 5 min point.

When using the M06, I like to juice up the whole rear tire and just the inside half of the front. I find that I have no grip roll issues and the car rails.

If there is a editable setup sheet, I'd be delighted to share my setup (carpet). I find that I'm not as competitive on asphalt, with whatever tire combo...

The m06 manual states that the soft springs are front and hard springs in the rear... I can attest that this works well. the hard springs actually make the car grip better (on carpet) then softer springs do.

I play around with the roll centre and camber to get the (out of turn/on power) grip i need.

Also, because m06 drivers are allowed to use any tamiya shell (unlike m05 drivers who MUST use high roofed shells... actually, they all use swift shells... yawn), I have found a few shells that work really well with the m06. Datsun 280 (my fav, cos it so retro cool), alpine, s800 (to some extent... must use front spoiler!).

I have yet to try other shells but I've tried my friend's m06 with honda crx, swift and s800(med wheelbase) which did not handle as well.

-Alexander
Hi guys, good that youīre all still around with the M06!
I didnīt use my M06 so much this year, cause I was stuck to get my M05 Pro V2 to work on our tracks in our new Mini class. Nevertheless, I learned a lot about this chassis, too. At the beginning of the year on carpet, I was grip rolling and turning all over with the same tires (S-Grips 60D) and on the same track as with my M06. Man, the M06 is really good fighting the grip roll, compared to the front heavy M05. So me and my fellow racers started the research, and cyano the side walls and first treads is a must on our carpet. It was so weird: You put the car the first time in and after driving 2 laps with new tires, you think this works. After this 2 laps, the tires get grippy with pickup and youīre done. No chance to control the car. Even the slightest turn did swap the rear end around so quickly, you couldnīt do anything to prevent it. Never had this on a M-chassis before. We used then isolating tape to define how many treads to cover on the front tire. So you donīt have to ruin the tire with too much cyano at the beginning. During the season, we used cyano from the edge of the tire up to the first or second tread block (plus the upper side walls), to get the grip level we needed...

On my M06, like I posted often before, I still like to use soft springs in front, medium rear, and still find the M06-R setup the best base, compared to the Pro-setup. It has more give and less understeer in my opinion.
I will use my experiences from my M05 next year on my M06, to get it back on the track!

Raman, thanks for the setup sheet, nice!

Br from Germany,
Matthias
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:10 PM   #1765
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
Hi Alexander, I raced in Singapore last Sept for the Asia Finals, was running the PacMan car.

To fight grip roll I think most of us brake every corner. With high cg and narrow track and big tires, tuning it out by setup is hard. Braking cures it
Were you using drag brake or actual brake?
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:44 AM   #1766
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Were you using drag brake or actual brake?
No drag brake. Finger brake
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Old 11-29-2015, 11:02 AM   #1767
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I have been running on medium grip asphalt since I moved to Las Vegas... so drag brake and steering brake are the only options There is rumour that we will soon have a indoor carpet track.. looking forward to it
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:25 PM   #1768
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Originally Posted by Aitutaki View Post
in addition: to prevent grip rolls, a good choice is to glue the front tires on the sides... this is the most helpful tuning for us here and our TEC Races...
+2 on this tip. I race at CRC Raceway in upstate NY. The installed their new Fastrack II carpet before the season started and the grip is unbelievable to say the least.
I sort of hate to admit I have several Mini's (methinks I have a problem) but I race the M06, which is the one I prefer.
What I found this season in a high grip situation is, CA glue on very outside bead of tire and up the sidewall about 2mm for front tires. Sauce only inside 3 or 4 beads. Sauce all of the rear EXCEPT outside bead. This seems to keep the car consistent and not wanting to traction roll.
If you need to alter the CA glue, I keep a piece of 180 grit paper in my pitbox. I just put the car on the stand and spin the wheels slowly w/ the radio while holding the sandpaper on the sidewalls. It removes the CA glue quite readily.

Alternately, on my backup M06 which I raced a week ago Sunday at the Cleveland Warm up race I ran a set of the kit Mini tires on front and S grips on rear. I did not CA glue the fronts at all and sauced w/ same pattern as the other car. The car handled very well and seemed to actually be a bit better getting thru the infield over my other M06 (loaned out to fellow racer). Both cars have same spring and oil (40wt front-soft spring/35wt rear- hard spring). One car has Datsun 510 body and the other has Nissan Silvia. No doubt in my mind the Silvia handles better since the COG is so much lower. I'm looking at new bodies for both cars, probably will go with the 280z or something similar.

I still prefer the M06 over the M05. Just suits my driving style better.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:08 AM   #1769
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...I just put the car on the stand and spin the wheels slowly w/ the radio while holding the sandpaper on the sidewalls. It removes the CA glue quite readily.
If you put the CA on the front tires, how do you use the radio to spin the tires on the M06, which is rear wheel drive?
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:50 AM   #1770
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Default Heh heh

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If you put the CA on the front tires, how do you use the radio to spin the tires on the M06, which is rear wheel drive?
Put the front wheels on the rear axle...

Wink!
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