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Old 08-25-2010, 03:36 AM   #1
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Default 13.5 sedan and finding the cars balance with lipo - general thoughts?

Do you feel some guys have walked away from Sedan now 13.5 is getting too fast? Adding to that the punch of lipo and ESC software updates making it even faster?

Maybe making the change from brushed to b/l and the change from nimh to lipo has made me dislike r/c after 15 years?

Just feels like a job with too much $ going into it for me right now. I could race with a brushed motor very well and much easier, less to get dialled into.

Yeah, I know that the routine of skimming etc was pretty tiring though, so what gives...
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:08 AM   #2
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Stock touring has created a rod for its own back with the software wars. I think that is a big turnoff for a lot of people.

13.5 (even untimed) is quite a bit faster than the old 27T, it is very close to 19T. 17.5T untimed is a better speed.

I don't think anyone is complaining about brushless and lipo tech. It has made maintenance easy and performance consistent. But the ESC software is a problem.

The good news is that we are reaching a tipping point and more and more racers are dropping the timing and getting back to a simpler and more enjoyable type of racing. This can only be good for the hobby.

I want new people to race against. If even I can't get my head around the software, with over 15 years of RC experience and a decent brain in my skull, how can someone who has never driven an RC car on a track before work it out? The cars are complicated enough as it is.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:10 AM   #3
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Stock touring has created a rod for its own back with the software wars. I think that is a big turnoff for a lot of people.

13.5 (even untimed) is quite a bit faster than the old 27T, it is very close to 19T. 17.5T untimed is a better speed.

I don't think anyone is complaining about brushless and lipo tech. It has made maintenance easy and performance consistent. But the ESC software is a problem.

The good news is that we are reaching a tipping point and more and more racers are dropping the timing and getting back to a simpler and more enjoyable type of racing. This can only be good for the hobby.

I want new people to race against. If even I can't get my head around the software, with over 15 years of RC experience and a decent brain in my skull, how can someone who has never driven an RC car on a track before work it out? The cars are complicated enough as it is.
+1 on all of that.

I am very grateful to the guys around me that are into r/c and help me out, I try to give back as much as I can to anyone whilst I am at a track, on a forum or racing, in my case i've raced also for 15/16 years.

It seems that the winner of a race is determined sometimes by a quick understanding of the latest ESC software and refining it on the track, as well as good car control.

Yes, I do believe newer technology is good for r/c, but it also has the downfall of becoming too wide in configuration for some (at any end of the spectrum, newcomer or racers that have been into the hobby many years).

Some people reading this may think I am having am having a pop at rc, to some extend maybe I am, but not in a negative way.

I guess to sum it up, you either understand rc and have fun with it, or you do not and it becomes more frustrating than fun.

I feel that I have to see how my mind feels at the end of the year, after some further changes in car and esc setup...

Or I could just simply be too old for this hobby now where it is common to have your car connected to a laptop or PC, tyre warmers, temperature monitoring motors, or not be winning!

Maybe younger people can get a better understanding of all this new age technology!
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:38 AM   #4
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To be honest, i quite like the boost software and all that.
But i have always liked technology and tinker with stuff.
By education i'm car mechanic (don't work as it, work as process technichan) and to say cars where better in '80/'90's because less technology is wrong and todays cars are too complicated with fiberoptics, can-signals and such. Well, times move on and so do we. The basic set up is cheaper today than it was before with tools to race, now you can bring your laptop to track or borrow someone else's. Don't get me wrong, i'm all for spec classes. I race in mini, touring, F1 and FF now. We run brushless in all of those with spec systems. Only Touring and FF is allowed with boost software and everyone run Xerun esc's with whatever you want 13.5T. So far we have great fun. Equal speeds and close racing.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by tc3team View Post
Do you feel some guys have walked away from Sedan now 13.5 is getting too fast? Adding to that the punch of lipo and ESC software updates making it even faster?

Maybe making the change from brushed to b/l and the change from nimh to lipo has made me dislike r/c after 15 years?

Just feels like a job with too much $ going into it for me right now. I could race with a brushed motor very well and much easier, less to get dialled into.

Yeah, I know that the routine of skimming etc was pretty tiring though, so what gives...
you Luddite Chris. Less moaning, more racing is what you need. Get down the track, dust off that transmitter, stick it on the black stuff and jam that throttle on. That's the only cure for the R/C blues.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:09 PM   #6
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I dont know, maybe i need more racing, maybe i need to consider my life with rc

I've done a lot of racing at Horsham with 13.5 on foam, lots of grip, I had the single fastest lap in quali and the race - but no consistancy to finish in the podium in the A this year, despite good qualifying situations which kinda dashed my hopes...

i've had good times with rc and with various guys (some well known too) and bad times.

I gave up my sponsorship with Tekin to spend more time with my family and not to think about my hobby and helping others where I could, maybe that is where my focus is - more than a hobby where I can spend too much time and money, my family is always going to take 1st place in my life.

A family including a wife and two sons instead of a hobby is no choice in any situation.

Guys that understand ESC software though - good on you, get in there and have fun! I guess i dont have enough time for it any more to be a serious competitor, times change, as do people... It happens

Long live the brushed days though and the good times I had - don't gear a stock motor at 5.3 at Aldershot, it tends to get a black comm and stop working at 4.5 minutes in qualifying, awesome speed though!!!!! lol
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Last edited by tc3team; 08-28-2010 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RossoTorro View Post
To be honest, i quite like the boost software and all that.
But i have always liked technology and tinker with stuff.
By education i'm car mechanic (don't work as it, work as process technichan) and to say cars where better in '80/'90's because less technology is wrong and todays cars are too complicated with fiberoptics, can-signals and such. Well, times move on and so do we. The basic set up is cheaper today than it was before with tools to race, now you can bring your laptop to track or borrow someone else's. Don't get me wrong, i'm all for spec classes. I race in mini, touring, F1 and FF now. We run brushless in all of those with spec systems. Only Touring and FF is allowed with boost software and everyone run Xerun esc's with whatever you want 13.5T. So far we have great fun. Equal speeds and close racing.
good for you, understanding techincal stuff is cool when u can put it into action and get the job done.

I too would like to enjoy technology - I'm at the track every meeting with my laptop and trying to dial the car in with various ESC settings, but it does not work for me.
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Old 08-29-2010, 06:14 PM   #8
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I'm in the same boat as most of you, although I haven't been racing nearly as long. I've got a family and race with my son, and we both love it, but i'm tired of spending hours and hours trying to get my electrics to perform, when i'd rather be racing.
I'm going away from 13.5 for that reason. I'm actually going to run 17.5 in our 13.5 spec class as the 13.5's are just too quick for me. I may get pasted, but i'd rather tone it down and have fun, than time the life out of an already fast motor, and spend my whole time trying to stay on the track!
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:43 AM   #9
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I'm in the same boat as most of you, although I haven't been racing nearly as long. I've got a family and race with my son, and we both love it, but i'm tired of spending hours and hours trying to get my electrics to perform, when i'd rather be racing.
I'm going away from 13.5 for that reason. I'm actually going to run 17.5 in our 13.5 spec class as the 13.5's are just too quick for me. I may get pasted, but i'd rather tone it down and have fun, than time the life out of an already fast motor, and spend my whole time trying to stay on the track!
Good to hear that you are managing your situation

Once you've found a good place to race at, in the right class, with the right people, its all fun from there I guess!
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:10 AM   #10
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You only need to look at the ETS ,

I was very dissapointed at the 0 timing rule that the guys brought in there this year mid season ,

But i have to say after racing with them for 2 race weekends and the stock racers numbered over 100 at evry race i have to say it is very sucsessfull

We all used the SP cirtix speedo and the 13.5 SPv3 motors , I personally would like to have a bit more punch and think 10.5 motors would be better but it was VERY VERY close racing

Even on the large track at MACH Heemstede we were still hitting speeds of 65kph and good lap times

BRING BACK A 0 TIMING STOCK CLASS !!!
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:30 AM   #11
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Yes I agree although I'm quite new to this I am getting fed up with the endless tweaking of my speedo, If you set it up so it's nice to drive your too slow, so you need most if not all the settings maxed so you can keep up, then it becomes harder to drive.

I'd rather have a fixed or 0 deg timing speedo and spend more time tweaking my car and not the speedo !

That said I am enjoying the racing but it does seem to be getting to the stage of who has the most punch, turbo and timing that can dial in without cooking the motor

I really must try my speedo on 0 timing just to see how it does go and drive.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:14 AM   #12
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As a rookie, I'm trying to just figure out what I WANT to run. This is causing so many problems as all I have are Ni-MH batteries and brushed motors. It's hard to be competitive in any class with older tech now. My ability to tweak and tune is limited, so I really need to have something simple to just focus on chassis. I think the 13.5 guys have gotten too fast. Not just too fast, but too costly. There's a point at which we have to say, let's go out and have fun. Spending mad money at the track seems like a good idea, but in the end just kills the newcomer like myself. Thankfully, my track is trying to drum up support for a newcomer class. I will be joining! Let's not over complicate an already complicated learning curve.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:05 AM   #13
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All very valid comments, which are about finding a good balance of the right class,speed, time and amount of money you put into your racing to make it work well for you

I'm going through the phase of racing where nothing right seems to become of it, not sure if im supposed to or !!!
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:12 AM   #14
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i have to admit we have a 10.5 0 timing class at our track and for training i turn the Tekin off put in an old X11 10.5 then go and play with them guys there is more competition and 1 mistake and your last out of the corner

The problem is with the timing speedos is if you get a "nice" setup your not fast so you alter it to make your self faster then you cook motors or run wide

I stopped playing with my speedo months ago as the more i did the more speed i got but the slower i was , just found a good fast(ish) set up and learn drive it

I will vote for our club to go for 0 timing stock class next season
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:08 PM   #15
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I'm just getting back into TC after a while away to go to University and am still running brushed stuff at the moment. For racing at my club my 19t is good enough to keep these psycho 10.5 Tekin things at bay, and I can still win the A final.
But when I go to big meeting I will need a brushless and just the thought of all those speedy settings scares me! There just seems to be some much variation in what you can run. Brushed was so much easier to be competitive on power. Anyway I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually, but I think I will end up doing what some of you guys have suggested, get a fairly hot setup while still keeping the driveability; I like the feel of a brushed setup and think if I go mad of all the turbo settings it will mess up my driving!
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