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Old 06-10-2004, 09:36 PM   #46
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Originally posted by ottoman
Lets see.... Someone (Danny) who is a well respected Matcher spends a lot of time and money testing a new matching method and feels it is a improvement over his old method. Or some guy no one has heard of, saying its not better. With out any testing to backup his points... boy I dont know who I would have more faith in
Well, if the man has a point. LISTEN TO HIM

Danny decided to go 35A because the extra strain on the cells could be used to determine how good they are a little bit better. RB says that extra strain will damage them.

How simple could that be?

Both sides have legitamite points.
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:39 PM   #47
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Well Danny doesnt get on here much so I guess Korgae will give you an answer when he visits next. But they may not have an answer that your looking for.

You would think that the cells would get hotter at 35 amps. Try discharging a coulpe of packs at 30 and 35 amps and see which ones get hotter. The difference may suprise you (or lack of difference). Plus if they are done at 35 amps then on average you would be discharging them around 50 seconds less so the cells wouldnt be hot as long. Not answering for SMC just my observations from my 17 years of racing.

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Old 06-10-2004, 09:41 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by ottoman
Lets see.... Someone (Danny) who is a well respected Matcher spends a lot of time and money testing a new matching method and feels it is a improvement over his old method. Or some guy no one has heard of, saying its not better. With out any testing to backup his points... boy I dont know who I would have more faith in
What makes me is how you obviously believe everything that is put in front of you.. and don't take the time to really sit back and make sense of what is being said!
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:42 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Black Kat
Well, if the man has a point. LISTEN TO HIM

Danny decided to go 35A because the extra strain on the cells could be used to determine how good they are a little bit better. RB says that extra strain will damage them.

How simple could that be?

Both sides have legitamite points.
Yes but SMC is one of the premier matching companies.... who is the other guy? The only way to prove it one way or the other is by actual testing.... which of the two spent 9 months testing?
Theory is great but the only way to decide between two opposing theory's is to test them

Last edited by ottoman; 06-10-2004 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:43 PM   #50
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Originally posted by EAMotorsports

You would think that the cells would get hotter at 35 amps. Try discharging a coulpe of packs at 30 and 35 amps and see which ones get hotter. The difference may suprise you (or lack of difference). Plus if they are done at 35 amps then on average you would be discharging them around 50 seconds less so the cells wouldnt be hot as long. Not answering for SMC just my observations from my 17 years of racing.

EA
Better point EA, the point about the cells not being hot for as long does make some sort of sense. I do give credit where credit is do!! I like good discussions as well!
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:50 PM   #51
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I like good discussions as well....Not mad by any means here. But honostly I cant tell much of a difference when I cycle my packs at 30 and 35 amps as far as temp range. I am going threw my stuff now in prep for a race next week in Las Vegas I will cycle a pack at 30 and check the temp and do one at 35 and check it as well and post the results here. Guessing I would say less than 5 degrees difference.

But I do know that GP's do not like anything below 30 amps at all!! And everything that Danny has sent me at 35 amps is seeming to hold up longer as far as cycle numbers and performance and are my best packs. I cant give you a scientific answer just experience.

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Old 06-10-2004, 09:58 PM   #52
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RB-I cannot debate the issue with you as I am a horrible debater, but I re-iterate a few points. Danny wants to make the best batteries he can. Maybe Jack is mre interetsed in the bottom line sorry jack!!!

After all the testing has been done on dirt, oval and on-road-he wouldnt be doing the 35 amp stuff if it either hurts the company and much more imortantly isnt faster than 30 amp batteries.

And-yes there is more to 35 amp discharging then just discharging at 35 amps. Cells that are good 35 amps cells can perform dramatically different over 5 or 8 minutes than a poorly performing cell does at 35 amps. Now RB -this is where I am a horrible debater as you will want to know why they perform dramatically different than 30 amp stuff in a techno babble sort of way-and I just cannot do it!! Dont got the lingo!!
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by EAMotorsports
I like good discussions as well....Not mad by any means here. But honostly I cant tell much of a difference when I cycle my packs at 30 and 35 amps as far as temp range. I am going threw my stuff now in prep for a race next week in Las Vegas I will cycle a pack at 30 and check the temp and do one at 35 and check it as well and post the results here. Guessing I would say less than 5 degrees difference.

But I do know that GP's do not like anything below 30 amps at all!! And everything that Danny has sent me at 35 amps is seeming to hold up longer as far as cycle numbers and performance and are my best packs. I cant give you a scientific answer just experience.

EA
I'm going to make a call tomorrow and ask my friend if I can borrow his TM 4/35. If he says yes I can gonna order a few bulk, unmatched GP cells from a matcher. Match a few at 30 amps, a few at 35 taking temperature readings with temperature gauge at the end of each matching cycle. I'll post my results.
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:10 PM   #54
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There is a good post on the Fukuyama thread about 35 amp discharging and how they tested it and why they decided not to go this way at this time. Its nice to read posts based on testing and not just theories about why things wont work.
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:11 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by RecordBreaker
I'm going to make a call tomorrow and ask my friend if I can borrow his TM 4/35. If he says yes I can gonna order a few bulk, unmatched GP cells from a matcher. Match a few at 30 amps, a few at 35 taking temperature readings with temperature gauge at the end of each matching cycle. I'll post my results.
Remember to keep them in a temp. controlled environment. Coz I've had cells charge up to 400mah more just by charging them in a cool environment.
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Entropy
Remember to keep them in a temp. controlled environment. Coz I've had cells charge up to 400mah more just by charging them in a cool environment.
YOu also have to warm-up the TM machines by partially charging and discharging some cells.

Also make sure all cells have been dicharged on a tray and have cooled down. depending on how old the cells are in a fresh case-the residual charge left in them can be from 15 to 45 seconds at 30 amps. All these things affect the numbers you get on the TM's.
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:37 PM   #57
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RB-I think you have a valid point. Temp has a lot of affect on the equipment that is used to match these batteries. I am a firm beleiver in the good name of SMC but they are a business who needs revenue growth and marketing a product in a different way could increase these sales numbers.

I am not sure that SMC is the biggest matcher or the most accurate,but they use the same equipment that all the other popular matchers use. They also buy the cells from the same manufacturer. In racing the best guy gets the best. I, as well as many have seen the best running these cells and still dump. Trinity gives the best to there drivers as well as SMC gives the best to there drivers... The hobby shops dont see the cells those pros use. So how can this new system provide a different level of quality cells than the ones hobby shops already receive?

By the way I have also in the past run SMC and they have always been good. I just think your dressing up a product which is still the same and selling it with a new label...
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:48 PM   #58
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question

in smc it says 30 amp discharge rate if im using only a 20 amp discharge what will be the effect on the cell or pack? does it affect the performance of the batt.
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Old 06-11-2004, 12:24 AM   #59
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one more question - the whole premise (at least as i've read it) for the extra 5 amps on the discharge is to "weed out bad cells". exactly how many cells are we talking about here that are ok at 30, but 'bad' at 35? and what exactly is making the cell 'bad'? do they start to vent at 35 and not 30 (in which case 40 must definately be better, and 45 better yet).
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Old 06-11-2004, 05:58 AM   #60
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........

Last edited by cr250; 10-19-2013 at 08:58 AM.
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