R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-10-2010, 10:56 PM   #91
Tech Master
 
Owen RaCing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Valley
Posts: 1,940
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

We can go on forever about what ifs about stock vs mod. You guys wanna slow down, then run stock. But don't recommend slowing down the class I like to race. I'm not trying to lobby to speed up stock to my liking, so why should you guys slow down mod? Either try to drive the power, or don't, just drive in your comfort level.

And if you people are so sure that your whatever.5 motor is as fast as mod, run it. Mod is considered open now. Again, run your comfort level. 13.5 down to 4.0. That should make mod/open more inviting, but it does not seem to.
__________________
powered by anti-anxieties, sarcasm and chipotle
Owen RaCing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 07:28 AM   #92
Tech Elite
 
L.Fairtrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 3,773
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to L.Fairtrace
Default

The statement that stock is more expensive than mod is laughable.

I have run both classes and mod is much harder on everything than stock is.

And to the people that feel the need to buy motors constantly to be fast in stock are just using motors as an excuse as to why they are slow.

I qualified 3rd at the snowbirds in 13.5 with a motor that was almost 2 years old at that point. At every race last year I ran a duo 1 13.5 from the first batch of them that ever came out. Brushless motors are are so close right now that they are probably the least important aspect of a top drivers racing game. Setup, driving, gearing and speedo setup are all more important.

Mod, eats diffs, eats cvds, eats belts, wears plastic, and due to wrecking more in mod, which all of us do, you break more stuff from simply hitting more stuff at a faster speed.

I am all for mod as well as 17.5 expert right now but simply telling people to run mod or stop racing is going to cause people to do just that.... Stop racing.


Its hard enough for me to drive a mod speed car for 6 minutes without blowing it up, someone without much experience would have a much harder time.

And Ruben, I wasnt around in 1999 but I know that when I look at the list for the snowbirds in 05 there are like 13 mains of stock foam and 15 heats of combined 19 turn foam. That doesnt seem so bad to me.

I don't think its the middle class killing Touring racing I think its bad decisions in general and peoples lack of wanting to get better through hard work and practice that is killing onroad.
__________________
Awesomatix USA - EaMotorsports - RocheUSA - MonTech - Sanwa - BSR Racing Tires - TQ Wire - Solaris Racing Tires - Side Piece Racing

180 and 360 Raceway. Best on the East Coast. Take your pick
L.Fairtrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 09:09 AM   #93
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL View Post
waaay too many classes diluting
For example, in the UK, even at club level 99% of sedan electric is rubber tyres. The occasional club uses foam.

That just leaves the motor to be decided on.

I like racing on foam, but it's much harder work than racing with rubber, I have never fully understood why sedan foam class is still very popular in the USA when it has virtually dried up everywhere else.
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 09:14 AM   #94
Tech Elite
 
L.Fairtrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 3,773
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to L.Fairtrace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team View Post
For example, in the UK, even at club level 99% of sedan electric is rubber tyres. The occasional club uses foam.

That just leaves the motor to be decided on.

I like racing on foam, but it's much harder work than racing with rubber, I have never fully understood why sedan foam class is still very popular in the USA when it has virtually dried up everywhere else.
Foam tire is dead here too man. Has been for about a year.
__________________
Awesomatix USA - EaMotorsports - RocheUSA - MonTech - Sanwa - BSR Racing Tires - TQ Wire - Solaris Racing Tires - Side Piece Racing

180 and 360 Raceway. Best on the East Coast. Take your pick
L.Fairtrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 09:28 AM   #95
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
Foam tire is dead here too man. Has been for about a year.
Ah okeys, thanks for the insight

In general, a highly organised race series needs good clarity about the classes it runs from day 1, and it should not be too many.

Times change and stock, pro stock and modified are long gone imo since brushess came to us all, too many classes.

The BRCA (The UK equivelent of ROAR) abandoned its stock level class a long time ago, the only "replacement" as such was a junior class to help recognise the need for younger people in our hobby to get recognised and to feel like they have achieved something in their hobby.

Unfortnately this wasnt very well supported, which imo is a shame as these young people are the ones we need to keep racing alive and be the future of it.

Is there an issue with sponsored guys winning too much these days?

Does that then make the unsponsored feel like there is no room for them at a big event?

I don't know where the problems are or what needs fixing, maybe it is the economy and the cost of entrance fees that put people off
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 10:33 AM   #96
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

There was nothing wrong with the 2010 ROAR Nats. One hundred participants is awesome when you consider that at an off-road race most race 2-3 classes (and sometimes 4!) which could translate to 200-300 entries.

Based on the last two Nats and the pre-entries for this one, I can see how ROAR could consider dropping the race. Now I am sure they won't based on the final totals but ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.

ROAR should create all nationals equally. just because one has a larger or smaller turnout does not mean that trophies should be eliminated or fewer RMT members sent. Everyone pays their entry and all should be treated the same. Just because one race is smaller and less revenue generated does not mean that the titles are any less important.

17.5 Expert and Open for TC and 1/12 are perfect for national classes. Sportsman is great for the locals who want to race and for racing on the club level.

Now on-road has to somehow run with unified rules from track to track and race to race. good luck!
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 11:13 AM   #97
Tech Addict
 
stonedgti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 699
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Well said Rick! I agree with you 100%. Labor day and a consistent venue will improve the attendance.

NorCal did a great job holding the Reedy and Nats this year. They deserve to have the 2011 Nats also, if no other GOOD tracks step up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
There was nothing wrong with the 2010 ROAR Nats. One hundred participants is awesome when you consider that at an off-road race most race 2-3 classes (and sometimes 4!) which could translate to 200-300 entries.

Based on the last two Nats and the pre-entries for this one, I can see how ROAR could consider dropping the race. Now I am sure they won't based on the final totals but ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.

ROAR should create all nationals equally. just because one has a larger or smaller turnout does not mean that trophies should be eliminated or fewer RMT members sent. Everyone pays their entry and all should be treated the same. Just because one race is smaller and less revenue generated does not mean that the titles are any less important.

17.5 Expert and Open for TC and 1/12 are perfect for national classes. Sportsman is great for the locals who want to race and for racing on the club level.

Now on-road has to somehow run with unified rules from track to track and race to race. good luck!
__________________
Team Powers | ORCA | OD 12 Racing | NorCal Hobbies | JWerks | Sonic Racing | Team Gayzer | AYO Racing | Team Hastings | Uncle Larry Concepts | Moonlight Toys
stonedgti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 11:44 AM   #98
Tech Champion
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
Posts: 6,542
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.
+1 on that Rick
Consistency is key to good turnouts.
And the Norcal On-Road Nats was one of the best events I have attended.
The only thing I would have preferred is 13.5 stock profile for Expert 12th instead of open esc 17.5
__________________
--> 12th scale Information Source <--

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing."
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
RedBullFiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 11:46 AM   #99
Tech Master
 
smoke81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,224
Send a message via AIM to smoke81 Send a message via Yahoo to smoke81
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I don't think its the middle class killing Touring racing I think its bad decisions in general and peoples lack of wanting to get better through hard work and practice that is killing onroad.

__________________
Dustin Layne
smoke81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 12:14 PM   #100
Tech Elite
 
PutAwayWet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,423
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
Now I am sure they won't based on the final totals but ROAR must eliminate the rotating venue program and have the race in the best location possible even if it means NorCal Hobbies for the next 5 years. ROAR should snap up the Labor Day weekend for this race.
This is a good idea. USA Cycling has gone to this model for its National Championships in the last few years. It takes advantage of the experience, infrastructure, and investment it takes to bring a venue up to Nats-level quality. And it gives the host the opportunity to amortize its investment over two or three years. And rather than killing a program, as the effort to host Nats tends to do, I bet it would keep the locals motivated over a longer haul. The host club would turn into a reliable hotspot of the racing scene, rather than a burnt out shell of itself. Granted, only a very few clubs and venues can afford to make the commitment, but sometimes a concentration of energy is the best way.

I'm not sure about the Labor Day part. Travel just gets more expensive on holidays. Early August is just right in my opinion. Otherwise, spot on.
__________________
Todd Mason
Seattle RC Racers

The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store.
Stand it like a man, and give some back. --Al Swearengen
PutAwayWet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 12:19 PM   #101
Tech Regular
 
FERNANDO.G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 414
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

WoW...A lot of mixed emotions and anger... I know a lot of it has to do with all the classes, sorry but it has become ridiculous, I do not travel like I did in the past but still race locally and the number 1 complaint is ESC and Motors,21.5, 17.5 novice or expert, 13.5 no boost or boost or mod... golly whats next,

world gt, stock,open 1/12 stock, 10.5 or mod, TC stock, 13.5 mod or Foam and rubber, it's got to the point where people run a class only if they think they can win...

I like what was done at the Nats, simple, mod class and A stock class period, I agree 19 turn caused caos, pro drivers should only run MOD classes, DONE.!!!!

This gives local club races and beginners a chance to do well at stock after all that is the stepping stone to mod, Slow down GOD if you can't handle mod don't run it BUT PLEASE don't slow it down, ITS MOD it's not for BEGINNERS...

Somehow someway rules regarding motors, esc and classes need to be simplified and DONE, just like Europe there is no say it's STOCK and MOD IN TC nothing else, I agree with Shaun tires, if everyone has the same lmit in tires the cost will come down..

entries, God you would swear the economy is boosting the way tracks are charging fees.

MAKE IT ALL SIMPLE AGAIN, DECIDE ON 2 TC CLASSES AND 2 1/12 CLASSES AND BE DONE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
ARC USA.TITAN.BLITZ. VIPER USA.HORIZON-HOBBY.JACO. AIRTRONICS. TEAM TRINITY.
TEAM DYNAMITE.
FERNANDO.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 12:48 PM   #102
Tech Lord
 
Hebiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 12,919
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

keep ROAR Nats and Reedy at Norcal.
__________________
Hebiki Design Works
Custom R/C Vinyl Graphics & Apparel: Your gear, your way!
Web Design - Web Development - Logo Design - Graphic Design
www.facebook.com/HebikiDesignWorks
Hebiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 01:33 PM   #103
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 936
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebiki View Post
keep ROAR Nats and Reedy at Norcal.
Are you going to show up next year?
Tony Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 01:55 PM   #104
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,979
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

I would certainly have no problem with simplifying the class structure and keeping a race at a consistent venue. The consistent venue allows people to budget annually because they have a pretty solid idea after making one trip that the same trip will have the same cost and they can better plan for it. I mean look at the Snowbird Nationals and the (after this year defunct) IIC. By keeping the same place, it not only is a benefit to the host, but to the racers because they arent having to annually re-crunch the numbers to see if they can afford to go to the event or not.

By simplifying the class structure it doesnt make a win seem "hollow". Which is better...finishing top 10 in a class with 30 people or top 10 in a class with 100 people? I like Rick's idea of 17.5 Expert and open mod for touring car. As someone with a Pantoura in my room I have a thing for WGT so Id like to see that at least given a fair chance even at the local level.

I havent renewed my ROAR membership in quite some time but if these things happen I certainly could set aside $30 to make that happen
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 02:07 PM   #105
Tech Elite
 
L.Fairtrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 3,773
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to L.Fairtrace
Default

I'll say it again, in theory having only 2 classes is a great idea but there is at least one major problem, If a lot of guys are forced to only run one class they just wont show up. Spending up wards of 1-2k for me to attend a race on the west coast is not worth it to me for 30 minutes of track time.

And don't tell me to run 12th scale or wgt. This is my hobby and I will run what I want. I know coming to a race is my choice but if many choose not to come because of this rule and or class structure then attendance will be even lower.

I think the idea of an amateur class now at the nationals is a good idea, Its basically like the stock class of 2006 but not full of 75-100 percent sponsored drivers. Some of you may say that an amateur class should not be at the "Nationals" ok well I would maybe agree with you if these races were selling out but they are not and until they do add as many classes as you can to keep them afloat so it is at least profitable for the Host track.
__________________
Awesomatix USA - EaMotorsports - RocheUSA - MonTech - Sanwa - BSR Racing Tires - TQ Wire - Solaris Racing Tires - Side Piece Racing

180 and 360 Raceway. Best on the East Coast. Take your pick
L.Fairtrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:36 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net