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Old 08-10-2010, 04:27 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I wont attend any major race I cant race 2 touring classes. That is how I feel. I like touring and there should always be some middle ground where the fastest can race the slower guys. That is the only way people will improve.

In the biggest days of touring in the mid 2000's there was always a middle ground class(19 turn) and it didn't hurt attendance at races.
Larry ..... you are soooo wrong my friend. The hay day of TC late 90's early 2000's we only had 2 classes. 1999 ROAR Paved nats had just over 100 in stock and something like 80 in modified. Reedy race had only 2 classes stock and mod. The beginning of the end was 19t. It demotivated racers to make the move from stock to mod. 10 years ago a TC racers wanted out of stock. They worked to get faster so they could run mod. Nowadays very few want to put the time and dedication into what it takes to run mod.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:34 PM   #62
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Despite what it says I don't see this happening being that the Nationals are used to qualify drivers for the Worlds.
Hub .... be serious ..... who needs to qualify if only 5 US drivers go???? ROAR could always use the resume system to qualify for the worlds. 1/5th is WC class, there are no ROAR 1/5th National Championships

As far as those awards. It was announced at the race regarding the 6-10's in the A's and the lower mains that were only there because of track side entries. If you want your award. Please email me this week, [email protected]

Someone here within this thread nailed the real problem with on road on the head. We don't need to look much past this thread for the reasons that there is a decline in on road. My biggest concern is that it really seems like on road needs to die so the reset button can be hit for on road to thrive again. Now flame on ...lol
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:39 PM   #63
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Hub .... be serious ..... who needs to qualify if only 5 US drivers go???? ROAR could always use the resume system to qualify for the worlds. 1/5th is WC class, there are no ROAR 1/5th National Championships
Sure they could so to hell with the Nationals!!! Who needs it!!!
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:43 PM   #64
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JL .... FYI...... 12th scale at the worlds is usually run on carpet. In the last 12 years carpet nats have had only 2 races that were less than 200 entries, 2004 and 2010. Paved nats have been poorly attended the last 3 years, although this year was better than the last 2. IMO, 128 entries and 101 drivers in this economy is a success.

As far as classes we should have a Sportsman/Stock TC class, no sponsored drivers, treaded tires, no timing ESC's, 21.5 motors with locked timing, and realistic, licensed, race car bodies. If you limit the amount of available traction, get rid of the high down force TC bodies of the current era, eliminate boost timing in ESC's and make a motor spec that basicaly puts all "stock" bl motors on the same playing field. Limit the sensor location or get rid of sensored al together in stock/sportsman. Make the cars something the hobbyist could enjoy and be competitive with and just maybe we'll see TC make a come back. Go ahead and the flame begin.

Open TC - open esc, open motor, slicks and current TC bodies.

1/12th 17.5 or 13.5

1/12th Open

It's time for people to man up. Run what you can HP wise and see where you really stack up in a real field.
This is the idea that needs to be taken, somebody just needs to take some freaking initiative and make it happen. Who cares if you can only run one class, I mean when you spend $500.00 on a weekend it is nice to get your money out of it, but I don't think running 17.5 is the key.

In this crap economy, it seems like everybody is to lazy to get into how much it takes to run mod. For some people it cost a lot more money. People are to fat and lazy these days to put there heart and soul into dying on-road, let alone mod.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:54 PM   #65
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Sure they could so to hell with the Nationals!!! Who needs it!!!
Hub ... not what I said. I was merely pointing out the alternatives. I for one do not want to see this race go away, but it's not going to be up to ROAR, it'll be the racers that have the final say with their actions and not words. IMO the racers spoke up with what I feel was a well attended event in this crapy crapy economy. One thing is for sure if TC is going to survive past the next couple of years there needs to be some pretty major changes. Then again most people think I'm full of $h!#, just like when I said 3 years ago 17.5 needed to be stock and not 13.5, and that that would still be too fast in a couple of years. But then again I'm just talking out my a$$ as usual ...lol.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:06 PM   #66
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Hub ... not what I said. I was merely pointing out the alternatives. I for one do not want to see this race go away, but it's not going to be up to ROAR, it'll be the racers that have the final say with their actions and not words. IMO the racers spoke up with what I feel was a well attended event in this crapy crapy economy. One thing is for sure if TC is going to survive past the next couple of years there needs to be some pretty major changes. Then again most people think I'm full of $h!#, just like when I said 3 years ago 17.5 needed to be stock and not 13.5, and that that would still be too fast in a couple of years. But then again I'm just talking out my a$$ as usual ...lol.
I know that you were just pointing it out, that was my attempt at being humorous The truth is it's those who go against the grain that should be listened to more. It's good to be different
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:27 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by schurcr View Post
Larry ..... you are soooo wrong my friend. The hay day of TC late 90's early 2000's we only had 2 classes. 1999 ROAR Paved nats had just over 100 in stock and something like 80 in modified. Reedy race had only 2 classes stock and mod. The beginning of the end was 19t. It demotivated racers to make the move from stock to mod. 10 years ago a TC racers wanted out of stock. They worked to get faster so they could run mod. Nowadays very few want to put the time and dedication into what it takes to run mod.
I really think people need to stop obsessing on 20 years ago, there are so many factors that are different now, to assume success by going "back to the basics" is foolish. I am insulted that you feel that the average racer is not dedicated enough to run mod, the issue is COST, when you crash in mod, it COSTS alot more. You say that it will teach people NOT to crash, I say it will cause people to quit. I can also tell you that on a reasonably sized asphalt track, 150x75 that pros like Fairtrace, Schreff, Cuffs, Haynes, etc were barely faster with full out mod vs 13.5, hotlap was maybe .2 faster and full runs almost identical.
You can say, well then why do you need 13.5, just run MOD, well walk around the pits and ask how many people have broken chassis plates in 13.5 vs MOD, and I say that there is no reason to try and wrestle the bottom end punch of a 6.5 when you can get an easier to drive car with the same top end with a 13.5.
There are few tracks stateside that really need a full mod class, and I don't know of any indoors big enough. These tracks in europe are huge, even the indoor carpet ones.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:48 PM   #68
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I really think people need to stop obsessing on 20 years ago, there are so many factors that are different now, to assume success by going "back to the basics" is foolish. I am insulted that you feel that the average racer is not dedicated enough to run mod, the issue is COST, when you crash in mod, it COSTS alot more. You say that it will teach people NOT to crash, I say it will cause people to quit. I can also tell you that on a reasonably sized asphalt track, 150x75 that pros like Fairtrace, Schreff, Cuffs, Haynes, etc were barely faster with full out mod vs 13.5, hotlap was maybe .2 faster and full runs almost identical.
You can say, well then why do you need 13.5, just run MOD, well walk around the pits and ask how many people have broken chassis plates in 13.5 vs MOD, and I say that there is no reason to try and wrestle the bottom end punch of a 6.5 when you can get an easier to drive car with the same top end with a 13.5.
There are few tracks stateside that really need a full mod class, and I don't know of any indoors big enough. These tracks in europe are huge, even the indoor carpet ones.
I ran a 13.5 in both classes during that race and was competetive in both
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:53 PM   #69
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One thing I think that might help bring back some racers is to shorten the race. If the turn out is only going to be in the 100-150 range it should be possible to run this as a three day show.

Friday practice, do not allow any participants on the the track from Monday to Thursday. Track can remain open to normal customers not running the event.
Saturday 3 or 4 qualifiers if time permits.
Sunday Final qualifier, if necessary, run the mains. Only run triple mains if the class has the required number of entries.

Also maybe limit the tires to just 1 set or 6 tires. They do this at the Euros and they run 6 quals on the tires. I know we could have run a lot of runs on the Solaris tires with out issue.

Many people I talk to about mnost races say that they just cannot take 4-5 days of from work plus the expense of the travel.

Just a thought.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:57 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
I really think people need to stop obsessing on 20 years ago, there are so many factors that are different now, to assume success by going "back to the basics" is foolish. I am insulted that you feel that the average racer is not dedicated enough to run mod, the issue is COST, when you crash in mod, it COSTS alot more. You say that it will teach people NOT to crash, I say it will cause people to quit. I can also tell you that on a reasonably sized asphalt track, 150x75 that pros like Fairtrace, Schreff, Cuffs, Haynes, etc were barely faster with full out mod vs 13.5, hotlap was maybe .2 faster and full runs almost identical.
You can say, well then why do you need 13.5, just run MOD, well walk around the pits and ask how many people have broken chassis plates in 13.5 vs MOD, and I say that there is no reason to try and wrestle the bottom end punch of a 6.5 when you can get an easier to drive car with the same top end with a 13.5.
There are few tracks stateside that really need a full mod class, and I don't know of any indoors big enough. These tracks in europe are huge, even the indoor carpet ones.
More people at the track break with 17.5 that we do in modified. I don't care what anybody says. You break cars when you hit the wall in any class. If you know your limits with any motor, you break as many parts.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:00 PM   #71
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I tell you after this years Nats i think their should be one. Id be willing to bid again to have all those 130 awesome people and all that fun again. Someone step up and put a bid in and just do it. Onroad electric racing is to cool to not continue.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:39 PM   #72
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If that was the case, then how the heck did ROAR make plaques for the B mains? Also, yes, what you said is true about people throwing them in the trash, but that's their problem, because it's theirs.

Ok, I'm gonna stop bitching about the plaque thing now.

I totally agree with you on how on-road racing should change. Stock and MOD. That's all there needs to be.

Also, I've been a stock racer for god knows how long, and just tried MOD recently. MOD cost a lot less than 17.5 Xpert, period! I buy way less motors.

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When entries were cut off 2 weeks prior to the race there wern't enough entries for B mains except for in one class. So how is that degrading or disrespectful. You really want to know what's disrespectful. When ROAR did bring 1-10 for all it's A mains and drivers just left them in their pits after the race or better yet finding them in the trash.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:40 PM   #73
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More people at the track break with 17.5 that we do in modified. I don't care what anybody says. You break cars when you hit the wall in any class. If you know your limits with any motor, you break as many parts.
I'm not talking about a chub or knuckle, or arm, when you snap a chassis and take some bulkheads with it, its usually cheaper to get a new kit.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:53 PM   #74
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Too bad its not as easy for some1 to put an onroad track in their backyard or barn as it is an offroad 1. just to have a bunch of guys show up and run the cars all day for a good time. plenty of hotlaps, bench racing, beer, and BS. really quick you rediscover yth you got into this hobby and continued in it moreover.

The 2wd mod guys around here started doing it between 2 backyard tracks since for most part 1/10 electric offroad has been rubbed outta the area (dont say SCT please). So this is the alternative. running all damn day as much as you want, throw the old amb on and hear laptimes have a ball.

For the guy who said its wrong and its tiring to look back. well honestly you have to go back to the egg. People told me i was full of it to think MTs would go away fairly quick 5-6yrs ago based on what i had seen in electric trucks 88-91. Well first conversions came out then a few real 'truggies' then the full on arena trucks or 'spastic lunar groundcraft with turrets syndrome' were here. bye bye MT. Wasnt it more fun then too...

R

PS-i see 'rocketron' in here. Uncanny since i just finished watchin the 89 worlds A1 2wd again. Nice pants!!!
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:54 PM   #75
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I'm not talking about a chub or knuckle, or arm, when you snap a chassis and take some bulkheads with it, its usually cheaper to get a new kit.
If you wreck that bad, those people should not be thinking about mod. They should be thinking about novice. People that break chassis don't break them because they strapped in to much power, they did that because they have not learned the basics in the first place. I don't know how you break a car that bad in the first place. Ive seen screws pulled out of bulkheads, but never bulk heads pulled out of chassis.
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