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Old 07-31-2010, 03:30 PM   #1
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Default Doing some thinking about the points system discussion...

I was sitting in bed a couple nights ago reading one of my RC magazines when I got to thinking about the discussion that was had earlier in the year about a national points system. THere was some good points made all around and its too bad no one took the mantle and tried to make something happen. I got to thinking about this sort of structure:


Onroad

Divisions: Novice, Sportsman, Expert, Pro

Novice- racing < 1 year, 0-25% sponsorship, 21.5 motor, Cirtix ESC or similar non-adjustable ESC, 30C Lipo limit

Sportsman- racing 1-2 year, 26-50% sponsorship, 17.5 motor, ROAR Sportsman ESC, 35C LiPo limit

Expert- racing 2-3 years, 51-75% sponsorship, 13.5 motor, open ESC, 40C LiPo limit

Pro- racing >3 years and/or >75% sponsorship, Open everything

Novice, Sportsman and Expert divisions are split into 5 regions: Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast, Midwest, Northwest and Southwest.

Pro runs 8 race national championship series

Top 10 in regional points in TC, 12th and WGT qualify for national championship runoffs, winner bumped up to next class (Expert National Champion bumped up to Pro National Championship series for that class)

Points: 100 point scale, reduce by two for each class (6 entry minimum), 2 point bonus for TQ, two point bonus for fastest lap. 6 point bonus for "trifecta" (TQ, fastest lap and A main win)

I havent worked out all the other stuff that was in my head yet but that is what I came up with at this point...thoughts?

Last edited by trackdesigner71; 08-02-2010 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:26 AM   #2
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:16 AM   #3
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I think that a national ranking or points is a great idea. But it has to tried and accepted on a smaller scale. It is hard enough for a single track and its racers to decide on the racing classes, who should race what class, etc. Doing this on a National scale where many tracks, promoters, and racers agree will be next to impossible.

The country is so big that a true National series is not really feasible. We see how other countries like England and others in Europe run national series but the countries are small enough that any racers can drive to any location without much trouble. Here it will be tough to get drivers to fly to all these races.

Ideally, you would have regional series that are within the driver's reach which lead to a single national race. There is the JBRL for off-road in Cali and the Grand Slam for on-road in the N/E. here is the Florida State Series in the S/E. Theres series cold easily be duplicated on other regions but in the end everyone needs to agree on rules, format, classes, etc.

If we only had a national sanctioning body to create technical rules etc and divide the country into smaller geographical regions we wold be set. Of course we have ROAR but most tend to ignore this valuable tool and most like to add their own flavor to their rules.

If we can't work with what is reasonable and already in place, organized points systems and series on a national level will never work.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:35 AM   #4
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Agree completely with you Rick except maybe for nitro onroad. There are really just two classes, most everyone runs ROAR/IFMAR rules and participates in ROAR events and most racers have to travel just to find a track anyway.

As long as electric insists on having 20 different classes each with 20 different rules packages, this will be difficult to pull off.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:37 AM   #5
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maybe that will work. Try it with one class that the nation follows one set of rules and go from there. Hopefully the other classes will follow.
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:07 PM   #6
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Well since touring has the biggest following that probably would be the most logical place to start. If you took my regional idea you could certainly scale that down to a smaller scale and experiment with that.

Rick, what do you think of the divisions: Novice, SPortsman, Expert and Pro?
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:43 PM   #7
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Is Novice really needed for National races? Fine at the local level, but are people just starting out really going to travel across the country to race at the Nats? Sportsman class should be fine for them if they decide to.

ROAR rules already state that Sportsman class can't have any sponsors.

I don't think that battery C limits are necessary as well. Lots of racers already run packs like the Thunderpower 40C or SMC 50C in "stock". You're suggesting that they would need to buy new, lower rated packs? Probably not feasible, especially since these guys aren't sponsored.

Aren't the non-adjustable ESCs and ROAR Sportsman ESCs synonymous?

Why not just align the ranking along the existing class structure, instead of making up new ones. Didn't ROAR do away with the 13.5 (superstock) class already?
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Agree completely with you Rick except maybe for nitro onroad. There are really just two classes, most everyone runs ROAR/IFMAR rules and participates in ROAR events and most racers have to travel just to find a track anyway.

As long as electric insists on having 20 different classes each with 20 different rules packages, this will be difficult to pull off.
Actually it could probably be done with 1/8 and 1/10 nitro on road. It might also be possible with 1/8 buggy. But the electric classes are out of control. At our last big electric off-road race in SoCal, there were 17 classes. 17!!

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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
Well since touring has the biggest following that probably would be the most logical place to start. If you took my regional idea you could certainly scale that down to a smaller scale and experiment with that.

Rick, what do you think of the divisions: Novice, SPortsman, Expert and Pro?
In racing types where there is no difference between car equipment (nitro and 1/8 electric off-road) and everyone runs the same equipment spec, all you need is Sportsman and Expert. Even t hen you have to get the tracks, promoters, racers, and manufacturers to agree how to differentiate the drivers. I'd rather everyone race together and you reward the top Sportsman drivers from within the overall results. But most would rather race separately so they have a chance to "make the main".

The three biggest problems to overcome are:

1. Make people realize that we need consistent rules across the board.
2. Teach people that not everyone can win or make the a-main and that not making it is OK.
3. Too many classes.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:03 AM   #9
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But the electric classes are out of control. At our last big electric off-road race in SoCal, there were 17 classes. 17!!
I believe it. The scary thing is that nitro offroad seems to want to go the same route.

I used to go to a nitro offroad race and you would have 40 guys there running buggy. That's it, all together under the same rules and it was great.

Now I go and you have 5 buggies and all five of them are arguing over whether or not to split into pro or sportsman. Then 7 truggies and they have decided to split so you have three guys running pro and 4 in sportsman. Then you have 4 monster truck guys, all four of which are running drastically different equipment. Then two guys with Bajas begging everybody else to get one. Lastly are 12 Slashes. That's great right, a good full field? Except they are split into 3 different classes.

The great thing is that everybody makes the A. Only problem is that no one cares since there is no B.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:53 AM   #10
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LIPO C limits are a goofy idea. It makes no sense, who wants to buy a low c lipo for racing? I can get beat all day with my 50c lipo by 30c lipos. (I forgot to finish this sentence. Working sucks.

Spec ESC stock, Open stock, Open Mod. (Novice, Sportsman, Expert) Easy as that. Top 3 in each class after the season must bump to the next higher class. Then it becomes about bragging rites to get into the next class, and letting fresh faces have wins in there respected class.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Owen RaCing View Post
LIPO C limits are a goofy idea. It makes no sense, who wants to buy a low c lipo for racing? I can get beat all day with my

Spec ESC stock, Open stock, Open Mod. (Novice, Sportsman, Expert) Easy as that. Top 3 in each class after the season must bump to the next higher class. Then it becomes about bragging rites to get into the next class, and letting fresh faces have wins in there respected class.
That seems like a fair way of doing it on a smaller scale for experimentation purposes. Of course many racers will react to that sort of change worse than a group of elderly Baptists to changing to a more contemporary worship style...but something is gonna have to change at this point.

Would somebody be willing to float it at their local track and let us know what the response is? Id do it but my "local" track is 4 hours away in Portsmouth
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:09 AM   #12
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That seems like a fair way of doing it on a smaller scale for experimentation purposes. Of course many racers will react to that sort of change worse than a group of elderly Baptists to changing to a more contemporary worship style...but something is gonna have to change at this point
The LiPo C rating will be tough to enforce. Bascially what is on the label is what is supposed to be what the battery is. But it will be just as easy to understate the C rating as it is to overstate it. IN other words, I (a manufacturer) can put an xxC label on a 50C battery and there would be no way to check it.
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:03 PM   #13
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I wouldnt be averse to having no C limit for that very reason Rick...so if the LiPo was opened up that would leave just addressing the motor and ESC
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:16 PM   #14
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
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2. Teach people that not everyone can win or make the a-main and that not making it is OK.
Combine an instant gratification culture and a "Second place is first loser" attitude, and you get what we have now.

Part of the problem is that the B, C, or J main at one race is kinda meaningless. Spread it out over a series, or season, or what have you, and it means a little more. 21st out of 57 is different from winning the C.
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