MurfDogg Synergy Brushless Motors
09-20-2010, 11:45 AM
#93
I like you view on Kv, it really is useless.
What is more important in the spec is power and weight.
Venom lies about their motor weights and that was not popular amongst a guy i know.
The motors are stated at 156grams while they were from 166ish gram and above.
Power at least roughly should be stated.
Because it simplifies the selection process.
If i were to chance my Corally x-bp 4.5T its vital to know the figures.
Because the new Red series 4.5T produces some 3 times the power.
i would not need that would i.
Good looking motor there.
hoping for some power figures..
State the timing and esc if you don`t like inaccurate figures.
btw. you could have a marked if you make a motor witch is light and has as little motor brake as possible.
For 1/12 scale and F1, specially rubber i think.
What is more important in the spec is power and weight.
Venom lies about their motor weights and that was not popular amongst a guy i know.
The motors are stated at 156grams while they were from 166ish gram and above.
Power at least roughly should be stated.
Because it simplifies the selection process.
If i were to chance my Corally x-bp 4.5T its vital to know the figures.
Because the new Red series 4.5T produces some 3 times the power.
i would not need that would i.
Good looking motor there.
hoping for some power figures..
State the timing and esc if you don`t like inaccurate figures.
btw. you could have a marked if you make a motor witch is light and has as little motor brake as possible.
For 1/12 scale and F1, specially rubber i think.
As far as people wanting power figures, it varies per class, and electronics that you run. I test all motors on the Dyno, and use a constant power source, with set timing, so I can compare each motor with all of the others. Watt for Watt, my Synergy motors have been matching every Trinity DUO motor I have tested in Watts, with slightly different Torque, RPM, and Efficiency numbers. My motors like less timing, as they are Torque motors, and like to be geared up compared to most other motors available.
My motors weigh between 164 and 172 grams, depending on the wind and rotor in each motor. To state that all of a companies motor weigh any set amount is ignorant, as different sizes of wire, and number of strands of wire are used in different winds. Also, a 12.0mm Neodymium Sintered rotor weighs much less than a 13.0mm version.
I cannot directly compare my products to other motors on the market that I have not tested in my controlled environment. Some companies try to sell motors by making claims of power, I want to sell motors based on my companies reputation, and word of mouth from my customers, not unfounded claims.
Matt
09-20-2010, 11:58 AM
#94
Tech Elite
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,780
YO, MURF..
thought i would drop in and say thanks for all the help in vegas.
thanks, man
mario
thought i would drop in and say thanks for all the help in vegas.
thanks, man
mario
09-20-2010, 12:03 PM
#96
I cannot directly compare my products to other motors on the market that I have not tested in my controlled environment. Some companies try to sell motors by making claims of power, I want to sell motors based on my companies reputation, and word of mouth from my customers, not unfounded claims.
Matt
I do know that I will never loose a race due to another guy having a faster motor in a spec class.
09-20-2010, 12:54 PM
#98
Tech Addict
Don`t compare yourself with "epic" and trinity. Silly brands. Your better than that.
Right??
Compare yourself with the benchmark... LRP?
And you need to post at least rough estimates on the figures like you just did. 160-170grams,
5.5T = 400-500watts? with 10degrees timing on a novak reg f. ex.
Or else some might say, they are hiding something, they are not up to speed etc.
actually it should not be to hard to post weight on everyone with 13mm rotor. Its not THAT many models yet?
just specify what the motor has (13mm rotor etc) when you state the weight.
If you upgrade the same model make a sub model category(series number) to separate newer models with minor tweaks.
a a tech drawing with dimensions like Mabuchi does could also improve sales. Not that its seriously needed(unless you have a FF-03) but it looks more professional then.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-b..._ID=rs_540rhsh
I really like the rough surface on the can btw. It looks solid... Industrial...
Last edited by MatsNorway; 09-20-2010 at 01:17 PM.
09-20-2010, 03:23 PM
#100
MatsNorway - Instead of comparing my motors to ANY other brand, I prefer to spend my time making myself available to my customers, for any gearing, timing, ESC advice, etc.
Trinity/Epic is a major business, and Ernie has been very important in the RC Industry for many years. The Trinity brand name deserves the respect of all racers and rc enthusiasts. They have built and sold the most successful Brushless motors to date. The DUO motors have won more races than any other, and during my development stages, they were the benchmark I was up against. I will never say my brand is better than another. My brand is different, and hopefully appeals to racers who in time may become my loyal customers.
Not trying to take away from LRP, or Novak or any other brand for that matter, as they all make great motors. But I sell racing motors, and I build my products to race against Trinity/Epic motors because they have proven to be the fastest in the world.
LRP and others have great quality products, but as a racer, I want a FAST motor, in fact the fastest. That is what I strive for.
If 2-3 grams of motor weight is going to make you decide whether to buy a motor or not, you must really race a weight conscious class. Every car I have raced in the last 2 years had some sort of lead attached to the car, so I just do not see the difference.
99% of racers look at manufacturer claims of output power, and do not know how the numbers were calculated, how accurate they are, or how it all matters in their applications. Claiming a 5.5 @ 500 watts means what to you? What are the variables used to determine the number of watts that you would like to see? How does a Peak Watt number help you calculate anything?
There is simply too many empty power output claims circulating, and I do not believe it really matters to most racers.
Matt
Trinity/Epic is a major business, and Ernie has been very important in the RC Industry for many years. The Trinity brand name deserves the respect of all racers and rc enthusiasts. They have built and sold the most successful Brushless motors to date. The DUO motors have won more races than any other, and during my development stages, they were the benchmark I was up against. I will never say my brand is better than another. My brand is different, and hopefully appeals to racers who in time may become my loyal customers.
Not trying to take away from LRP, or Novak or any other brand for that matter, as they all make great motors. But I sell racing motors, and I build my products to race against Trinity/Epic motors because they have proven to be the fastest in the world.
LRP and others have great quality products, but as a racer, I want a FAST motor, in fact the fastest. That is what I strive for.
If 2-3 grams of motor weight is going to make you decide whether to buy a motor or not, you must really race a weight conscious class. Every car I have raced in the last 2 years had some sort of lead attached to the car, so I just do not see the difference.
99% of racers look at manufacturer claims of output power, and do not know how the numbers were calculated, how accurate they are, or how it all matters in their applications. Claiming a 5.5 @ 500 watts means what to you? What are the variables used to determine the number of watts that you would like to see? How does a Peak Watt number help you calculate anything?
There is simply too many empty power output claims circulating, and I do not believe it really matters to most racers.
Matt
09-21-2010, 06:19 AM
#103
Tech Elite
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,780
allan has my number, i was traveling last week and was super busy when i spoke to him. hope he calls.
09-21-2010, 06:54 AM
#104
Tech Apprentice
Are these motors your own design or are you buying them from another source? How much development did you actually put into these? I have been on the fence to buy one but I have heard mixed storys from your IIC trip. You claim to have been in contention for a win. Exactly what class was it in? Is it true the CRC guys pulled the motors out of there cars and went back to the Duos? I just want to make sure I get my moneys worth as I personally think the price quoted me was a touch inflated. Thanks!
09-21-2010, 10:13 AM
#105
Spdy - I do not know who you talked to from IIC, however, I was working with Team CRC. Not an official deal, but I volunteered my time and efforts to them. I asked them to try motors. I expected none of them to race with my stuff, as single cell onroad was very new to me. They ran my motors for the first round of practice, but we overtimed and over geared them. They ran strong up front and started to fade. This was a BIG race, so we all decided its best to run the motors they are comfortable with. Because practice at IIC seeds you for qualifying, I did not want them to give up a run trying anything.
Dave Erlich left my motors in his cars and ran strong all week long.
Monte Hess was running DUO motors in his cars and was barely making the back of the top 10 in 13.5 WGT. He put my motors in his cars, and with what we learned from the CRC guys, we timed them lower, and geared them up, and he picked up 4 tenths of a second per lap... not on just his fast lap, but his avarage from start to finish.
In the A-Main, Monte was shadowing the leader, and pedalled the car at the end of the straight so he didnt drive thru the leader. He made a dive in tothe chicane to attempt a pass for the lead, and snagged the board. By the time he got off the board he was almost getting lapped. With three minutes to go, he put his head down and rallied up to finish fourth. He had a great car, and loved the power he had.
As far as development goes. I spent 18+ months developing these motors. I just went production on them, as I was finaaly convinced they were worthy of my companies name.
If you think my price is too high, well, I guess Im sorry we will not be doing business. I am not selling Discount bargain bin motors. I sell high quality racing motors, built with top quality materials.
Matt
Dave Erlich left my motors in his cars and ran strong all week long.
Monte Hess was running DUO motors in his cars and was barely making the back of the top 10 in 13.5 WGT. He put my motors in his cars, and with what we learned from the CRC guys, we timed them lower, and geared them up, and he picked up 4 tenths of a second per lap... not on just his fast lap, but his avarage from start to finish.
In the A-Main, Monte was shadowing the leader, and pedalled the car at the end of the straight so he didnt drive thru the leader. He made a dive in tothe chicane to attempt a pass for the lead, and snagged the board. By the time he got off the board he was almost getting lapped. With three minutes to go, he put his head down and rallied up to finish fourth. He had a great car, and loved the power he had.
As far as development goes. I spent 18+ months developing these motors. I just went production on them, as I was finaaly convinced they were worthy of my companies name.
If you think my price is too high, well, I guess Im sorry we will not be doing business. I am not selling Discount bargain bin motors. I sell high quality racing motors, built with top quality materials.
Matt