Interesting Info On The New Sanyo 3600's
06-04-2004, 07:46 PM
#17
I've always thought the standard was the same regardless of which type of cell was being analyzed. I could be wrong but aren't all cells analyzed by most matchers by these parameters?
Charge: 6.0 amps
Discharge: 30 amps
Cutoff: .90 volts
Discharge Time Limit: 5000 seconds
Charge: 6.0 amps
Discharge: 30 amps
Cutoff: .90 volts
Discharge Time Limit: 5000 seconds
06-04-2004, 07:48 PM
#18
Originally posted by mwcet8k
I've always thought the standard was the same regardless of which type of cell was being analyzed. I could be wrong but aren't all cells analyzed by most matchers by these parameters?
Charge: 6.0 amps
Discharge: 30 amps
Cutoff: .90 volts
Discharge Time Limit: 5000 seconds
I've always thought the standard was the same regardless of which type of cell was being analyzed. I could be wrong but aren't all cells analyzed by most matchers by these parameters?
Charge: 6.0 amps
Discharge: 30 amps
Cutoff: .90 volts
Discharge Time Limit: 5000 seconds
06-04-2004, 07:50 PM
#19
gp will always be top dawg.. if i remember correctly they are designed for rc racing.. and they are the first..
sanyo and panasonic sub c cells are not designed for rc racing.. they are designed for use in medical machines tools. ect..
it just happens they work well with rc, unless they do design a specifically rc based cell like GP.. they will never be able to compete...
Look what happened when GP came out,, sanyop dropped and panasonic.. that says alot..
sanyo and panasonic sub c cells are not designed for rc racing.. they are designed for use in medical machines tools. ect..
it just happens they work well with rc, unless they do design a specifically rc based cell like GP.. they will never be able to compete...
Look what happened when GP came out,, sanyop dropped and panasonic.. that says alot..
06-04-2004, 08:04 PM
#20
I would also bet that if a top level match comes out and says that they are not going to match a certain cell that they did not come up with that notion on a whim. SMC would not make a statement like that without testing these cells and trying to make them work. I know several matchers dropped the sanyo 3300 because of lack of performance and higher prices...not a good combo if you are looking to sell batts.
Jeff
Jeff
06-04-2004, 08:56 PM
#21
This IS a good thing. We need the battery industry to slow down the introduction of new cells so the electric racing community doesnt have to buy "the cell of the month" to be competitive. I know nothing is as fast as new packs... but that REALLY (should)only matter at bigger racing events. The idea is to encourage a cost effective/better product, and with the new matchers bringing battery prices so low, this is a GOOD time to be in electric R/C. I just see the new Sanyo cell as a weak attempt for Trinity to get a hold on the market again, and since they do not have GP like they do Sanyo, they are going to do what they can to sell batteries. Admittedly, if it wasnt for the evergoing research in NiMh tech, we wouldnt have cells as good as we do now, but there has to be a point where it is controlled, before electric racing is lost to the sound of nitro.
- DaveW
- DaveW
06-04-2004, 09:09 PM
#22
I just matched a case myself a few months back and SMC's numbers are pretty much dead on the GP numbers. It appears that GP's have much better quality spec requirements than sanyo ever has. Which makes it much easier for matchers since they don't have to worry about having a bunch of low end cells to get rid of.
GP's are here to stay until Sanyo gets their act together. Who will pay almost 1.5 to 2 times the price for Sanyo because of the name and with no better performance?
BTW Danny would never dismiss a cell on a simple test of 50 batteries. He has said on other sites that they have had them for months and were trying to see if there was anything they could change to get the cells to perform, but had no luck.
I also heard rumors that the 3600 Sanyos had serious venting problems even on the initial cycling.
$.02
GP's are here to stay until Sanyo gets their act together. Who will pay almost 1.5 to 2 times the price for Sanyo because of the name and with no better performance?
BTW Danny would never dismiss a cell on a simple test of 50 batteries. He has said on other sites that they have had them for months and were trying to see if there was anything they could change to get the cells to perform, but had no luck.
I also heard rumors that the 3600 Sanyos had serious venting problems even on the initial cycling.
$.02
06-04-2004, 09:16 PM
#23
GP330 cells were designed for high discharge and multiple recharge applications like defribulators (sp). The design criteria of a GP 330 cell was actually that it could maintain its rated capacity after 100's of charges. It was I believe tested and introduced to the US RC racing market llargely on the R&D work of SMC.
As GP started to learn about the demands of RC racing-they decided they wanted a piece of the multi million dollar industry and they responded by sorting and improving the highest quality cells for RC racing.
It showed decent promise as the Power's 3000 cell-then later as a Rainbow GP3300 cell. Those first Rainbow cells then became a Green and Orange cell when trinity got an exclusive "grey" market deal with GP in HK. The Rainbow was now the cell for Trinity in the US and the Green and Orange was the "consumer cell".
So to make a very-very long story short-a good portion of the GP3300 used in RC racing are already a 3500 cell so they arent far behind the Sanyo anyways. And the Sanyos have a long-long way t go to reduce the IR to a competitive level with the GP current cell-which as we all know just keeps gettting better and better.
As GP started to learn about the demands of RC racing-they decided they wanted a piece of the multi million dollar industry and they responded by sorting and improving the highest quality cells for RC racing.
It showed decent promise as the Power's 3000 cell-then later as a Rainbow GP3300 cell. Those first Rainbow cells then became a Green and Orange cell when trinity got an exclusive "grey" market deal with GP in HK. The Rainbow was now the cell for Trinity in the US and the Green and Orange was the "consumer cell".
So to make a very-very long story short-a good portion of the GP3300 used in RC racing are already a 3500 cell so they arent far behind the Sanyo anyways. And the Sanyos have a long-long way t go to reduce the IR to a competitive level with the GP current cell-which as we all know just keeps gettting better and better.
06-04-2004, 10:30 PM
#25
Well at $200+ a pack for lithiums, plus the cost of a new charger.....I don't think we will be seeing them anytime soon in racing....
I just had two cases matched up for sale.....and we had VERY few 1.15 cells, and really not many 1.16 cells either....most were 1.17 with a fair amount of 1.18 cells.
Later EddieO
I just had two cases matched up for sale.....and we had VERY few 1.15 cells, and really not many 1.16 cells either....most were 1.17 with a fair amount of 1.18 cells.
Later EddieO
Last edited by EddieO; 06-05-2004 at 06:27 AM.
06-04-2004, 10:50 PM
#26
Originally posted by EddieO
Well at $200+ a pack for lithiums, plus the cost of a new charger.....I don't think we will be seeing them anytime soon in racing....
I just had two cases matched up for sale.....and we had VERY few 1.15 cells, and really not many 1.116 cells either....most were 1.117 with a fair amount of 1.118 cells.
Later EddieO
Well at $200+ a pack for lithiums, plus the cost of a new charger.....I don't think we will be seeing them anytime soon in racing....
I just had two cases matched up for sale.....and we had VERY few 1.15 cells, and really not many 1.116 cells either....most were 1.117 with a fair amount of 1.118 cells.
Later EddieO
No one would be interested if its at 1.117 and 1.118.
Just to let you know.
No harm intended.
06-04-2004, 11:25 PM
#29
Originally posted by R/C Anonymous
most matchers use different numbers so their numbers are altered for different readings...for instance 20 amp discharge "ups" the voltage and runtime significantly
most matchers use different numbers so their numbers are altered for different readings...for instance 20 amp discharge "ups" the voltage and runtime significantly
as long as we all understand these ' techniques', everything wil be fine.
06-04-2004, 11:29 PM
#30
Originally posted by DaveW
This IS a good thing. We need the battery industry to slow down the introduction of new cells so the electric racing community doesnt have to buy "the cell of the month" to be competitive. I know nothing is as fast as new packs... but that REALLY (should)only matter at bigger racing events. The idea is to encourage a cost effective/better product, and with the new matchers bringing battery prices so low, this is a GOOD time to be in electric R/C. I just see the new Sanyo cell as a weak attempt for Trinity to get a hold on the market again, and since they do not have GP like they do Sanyo, they are going to do what they can to sell batteries. Admittedly, if it wasnt for the evergoing research in NiMh tech, we wouldnt have cells as good as we do now, but there has to be a point where it is controlled, before electric racing is lost to the sound of nitro.
- DaveW
This IS a good thing. We need the battery industry to slow down the introduction of new cells so the electric racing community doesnt have to buy "the cell of the month" to be competitive. I know nothing is as fast as new packs... but that REALLY (should)only matter at bigger racing events. The idea is to encourage a cost effective/better product, and with the new matchers bringing battery prices so low, this is a GOOD time to be in electric R/C. I just see the new Sanyo cell as a weak attempt for Trinity to get a hold on the market again, and since they do not have GP like they do Sanyo, they are going to do what they can to sell batteries. Admittedly, if it wasnt for the evergoing research in NiMh tech, we wouldnt have cells as good as we do now, but there has to be a point where it is controlled, before electric racing is lost to the sound of nitro.
- DaveW
DAMN RIGHT!!