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Old 09-21-2013, 01:28 AM   #601
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... I'm not a big fan of foam tires. I would love to see a spec RUBBER tire that works, like VTA has done.
IMO a pan car on rubber tyres would be a nightmare... on foams they are enough of a handful... and if you make everyone start running on tourer tyres than it just becomes another tourer class regardless of the bodies. Part of the attraction for a lot of people for pan cars etc is that they are something totally different.

I have to admit, as a recent "convert" to 1/12 I am not sure why more Group C'ers aren't buying up the Tamiya RM01... the bodies are exactly what we all like and the chassis uses standard electronics... I am hoping to grab myself either a Porsche body or the Mazda body before too long.
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:32 AM   #602
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Hey Gadgt

You want this DP body I painted up to play with? I most likely won't have time (or funds) to put it on a track - I could let it go for about $28.00 + shipping) that would cover my cost of the body, decals and paint. (The paint is pretty thin) I just wanted something I could put the new decals on - and see how I liked them, and if I wanted to get more done.
Hit me up after IIC. Right now my funds and most of my concentration are going toward that.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:04 AM   #603
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I have to admit, as a recent "convert" to 1/12 I am not sure why more Group C'ers aren't buying up the Tamiya RM01... the bodies are exactly what we all like and the chassis uses standard electronics... I am hoping to grab myself either a Porsche body or the Mazda body before too long.



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Old 09-21-2013, 10:14 AM   #604
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It looks like those who haven't been racing continuously have missed out quite a bit of pan car history. Pan cars died off in the mid 90s for two reasons, the wide chassis with wedge shells were unrealistic and hard to drive unless on a prepared track and just couldn't compete with the scale looks and ease of use of a narrow touring car that could race on any spare piece of asphalt and the dawn of car park racing in the mid 90s. The only chassis that looked reasonably scale were the narrow superspeedway oval cars.

In 1996 Trinity/Bolink/TRC introduced the Speed Spec cars with simple o-ring pivot rear ends and limited modifications that were designed around touring car size bodies. They were cheap to buy, simple to run and being the first cars designed around touring car size shells they looked great, but like most spec classes it died off pretty quickly.
In 1999 Associated created the RC10L3T and Corally the CCT, the first proper 200mm pan cars that fit touring car size shells, and Protoform made the Porsche GT1 shell to go on them. They had some interest, but never really took hold and died even faster than the Street Specs. Even though there were plenty of Le Mans and Group C bodies for them most seemed to run with standard touring car shells on them anyway.

WGT came about after 1/10th pan had disappeared for years and around 2008 a small bunch of racers on here were trying to create a new class using pan car chassis but with much more scale GT bodies on them - sound familiar? The front motor spec for the bodies was a deliberate move to prevent wedge bodies getting onto the list at all and keeping the looks as scale as possible. The first body list had a whole load of bodies from HPI and Tamiya on it, and one Protoform body, the Corvette; over here our body list includes the HPI Saleen S7R and Lamborghini Gallardo. The class only really took off when Scotty introduced it to the IIC as a support class and the scale looking and cheap to run cars proved to be popular, the same way there has been interest in USGT.

At the start there was briefly a wide range of bodies used with the Protoform and HPI Corvettes being briefly popular. Of course it didn't take long to go from which body looks the best to which body is fastest around the track which is why everyone runs the Sophia or Gianna. Protoforms first body release was the Mulsanne, a repull of the Porsche GT1, but there has been no interest in racing them and was soon discontinued after one production run.


If you want to run prototype shells then there are plenty of current options and some that were around 4-5 years ago when they were a little more popular you might still be able to find. There's no need to try and get new bodies made, and you aren't going to get Dale Epp to start carving out a 956 when he can be making bodies that Protoform can actually sell in decent quantities.

As well as McAllisters offerings there are still Protoform Mulsannes around, the Chevron ZTC011 Dauer is also still available. Tamiya still have the Nissan R390 and R91CP shells available, and you can still find the old Toyota TS020, Jaguar XJR-12 and Mercedes C111 around even though they are long out of production. For other shells recently out of production, there was quite a few appeared about 5 years ago, there was the Cross Toyota 88CV body and the Blade Racing TS010, XJR14, 905 and 962.

For the less scale but cheaper and better performing bodies there are the ABC Response and Colt Porsche GT1, Toyota GT1 and Porsche 962.

Choose your body, stick it on a WGT chassis and get out there and see if it attracts interest. Here in the UK we already have rules for a pan car class using prototype bodies, they were created when we created our WGT rules for those who want to run them. Apart from a couple of us at my club running WGT chassis with Protoform Mulsannes on them I don't know a single person who runs one.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:42 AM   #605
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I would love to see a spec RUBBER tire that works, like VTA has done.
Try running rubber tyres in the F103GT and see how far you get.

F1 has taken to rubbers because they are more scale, not for performance, and as InspGadgt says for someone used to foams they just feel funny to drive, the rubbers just don't feel connected to the track like foams do. I know the fact you have to adjust gearing and ride height as the foam tyres wear seems to be too complicated for some while tuning a touring car suspension is fine, but unless you have exactly the right rubber tyre combination on an F1 you spend all day just trying to get it round the corners without spinning out or sliding off. On a WGT chassis with more power it would be even worse. Sticking foam tyres on my rubber F1 instantly gives me a car that grips better, gives me lap times 10-20% faster and more importantly is more fun to throw around the track confident it isn't going to bite me instead of tip toeing around keeping it absolutely smooth all the time.

Although rubber tyre caps do work well in the rain.
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:28 PM   #606
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SW Tour, I want a set of those decals. If Gadget doesn't want the body, let me know and I'll take it. It's been approved for USGT. Also, did you sell those lime green Firebirds you had for sale?
PM me, please.

Scott
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:29 PM   #607
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RedBull,
Quite the flashback to the 792P body.
Thanks!
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:32 PM   #608
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@Terry,
I respect your opinion and agree that those who ignore history are damned to repeat it. What suggestions do you have to make for positive change?
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Old 09-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #609
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WGT had one other thing going for it that made it succeed and why the prototypes fail...it was more than just a group of racers that got together...they had strong manufactuer support to help push the class. While some manufacturers have continued to make prototype bodies for that small niche market...none of them have pushed to make a standardized class out of it.
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Old 09-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #610
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Try running rubber tyres in the F103GT and see how far you get.

F1 has taken to rubbers because they are more scale, not for performance, and as InspGadgt says for someone used to foams they just feel funny to drive, the rubbers just don't feel connected to the track like foams do. I know the fact you have to adjust gearing and ride height as the foam tyres wear seems to be too complicated for some while tuning a touring car suspension is fine, but unless you have exactly the right rubber tyre combination on an F1 you spend all day just trying to get it round the corners without spinning out or sliding off. On a WGT chassis with more power it would be even worse. Sticking foam tyres on my rubber F1 instantly gives me a car that grips better, gives me lap times 10-20% faster and more importantly is more fun to throw around the track confident it isn't going to bite me instead of tip toeing around keeping it absolutely smooth all the time.

Although rubber tyre caps do work well in the rain.
Oh yeah...in the rain once the track is wet enough rubber tires are phenomenal

But in the dry typically if the car isn't pushing...then it is spinning out. So its better to have it a bit on the push side and use brakes (push or drag) to get the car to turn in. You have to be a lot more careful driving them because even when the car has some push if you accelerate too early in a corner it will still swap ends. Granted this is all on asphalt...I haven't driven F1 on carpet yet and will do so at IIC this year
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:24 PM   #611
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@Terry,
I respect your opinion and agree that those who ignore history are damned to repeat it. What suggestions do you have to make for positive change?
I haven't got a clue, if I had any say in the matter we would all be running pretty scale looking prototype bodies on WGT chassis on 2S, F1s on foams would still be popular and touring cars would have to look more like the real thing like they used to do in the 90s.

If anyone wants to work through how WGT took off, the thread about it is here http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...t10-class.html Considering when it started the choice was mainly CRC, BMI or Speedmerchant new chassis, or old Associated L3, with HPI bodies. The biggest appeal was that the scale bodies used when it started looked so different to what was racing in other classes at the time. This was proven as Protoforms first reaction was to release the Mulsanne which was rejected by the racers, proving it was more driven by the club racers than anything the manufacturers were doing.

The problem of trying to introduce a Group C or LMP pan car class is that it's near what's already available. It's based on 1/10th pan cars - why not just run WGT? No, we want to run with sports prototype bodies - then why not run 1/12th then? No, we want to run 1/10th scale - then why not run Pro10? etc, etc.

Also the thing with creating an LMP pan car class is that while you will have it starting with the few scale looking bodies that are around these days the class would end up running one or two good looking bodies, until Protoform brings out a narrow version of their Peugeot 905 and everyone will switch to that. That's exactly what happened in WGT, everyone tried different bodies but ended up running the Protoform Corvette, which at least was still a scale body, then 7 months after the start of the class Protoform released the Sophia and overnight everyone switched to it.

Whatever happens with the class, I will still be running an ancient RC10L3T on 2S with a Porsche GT1 body every week at my club, and laughing at the butthurt touring car drivers when they whine after being beaten again.
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #612
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Whatever happens with the class, I will still be running an ancient RC10L3T on 2S with a Porsche GT1 body every week at my club, and laughing at the butthurt touring car drivers when they whine after being beaten again.

Gotta like it!!
We used to run 4 cell NiCd Legends cars for 8 minutes on a tiny indoor carpet oval. Had to conserve "fuel" and had to drive the cars. Would love the have that feeling again.
I have a PF Porsche GT1 and a CRC WGT car. Guess I gotta get to practicing if I'm going to "hear the butthurt touring car drivers whine..."
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:19 PM   #613
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I mostly race off road 1/10 mod 2WD and 4WD buggies, but needed some scale in my life. So I realized how much I enjoy watching 80's and 90's era Le Mans videos on youtube, I play Forza because they have the 962 and 911GT1 and Need for Speed Porsche unleashed for the 917.
Scale, to me, meant on road.

Rm01 was my cure.

"Race the change you want to see," Ghandi.

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Old 09-21-2013, 07:20 PM   #614
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The problem of trying to introduce a Group C or LMP pan car class is that it's near what's already available. It's based on 1/10th pan cars - why not just run WGT? No, we want to run with sports prototype bodies - then why not run 1/12th then? No, we want to run 1/10th scale - then why not run Pro10? etc, etc.

.....so if you want to race a realistic looking prototype buy a 1/12 Tamiya RM-01. "But what if I want something like that but in 1/10 scale?" No, those are your choices, be happy with it or go play video games.

All I'm saying is that I would like to see realistic GTP or Group C bodies on a 1/10 scale pan car. Tamiya's GTP cars are the most realistic and because they are scale they happen to be 200mm wide, which can include the current crop of 200mm pan cars. This is all about a divide in the hobby between scale and realism enthusiasts and the type of racer who doesn't really care how real his toy car looks as long as its the fastest one out there. I for one am a fan of full size sports cars, Daytona Prototypes, LMP cars and the classic GTP and Group C and would like to race a realistic looking model of said cars. With that being said, I'm starting to think that I am in a very small minority and that this will never come to pass.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:07 PM   #615
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Pro10 is mainly a european thing...there are little if any places in the US that run that. If that were an option out here I would run that over WGT. Which is why I do run 1/12th scale
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