transmitter response time
05-27-2004, 07:26 AM
#1
transmitter response time
these newer "high respose" systems (jr, ko, fut) are claiming to speed up the response time up to 3X that of a "standard" radio. that's great, but where is the quantified specification for this parameter for any system, new or old? what was the old spec? and what is the new one? how does the absolute response time compare from manufacturer to manufacturer?
if anyone has found these specs, please post the link(s). the manufacturers have made it possible to buy servos based on performance specs, but radios appear to be sold on features.
what is the ball park for transit time? obviously our servo travel is along the lines of 0.1 sec from center to lock, plus or minus some. where does response time lie? microseconds, i believe. that's 0.001. are we talking single digit microseconds that separate the helios from the mars?
talk to me.
if anyone has found these specs, please post the link(s). the manufacturers have made it possible to buy servos based on performance specs, but radios appear to be sold on features.
what is the ball park for transit time? obviously our servo travel is along the lines of 0.1 sec from center to lock, plus or minus some. where does response time lie? microseconds, i believe. that's 0.001. are we talking single digit microseconds that separate the helios from the mars?
talk to me.
05-27-2004, 07:31 AM
#2
Pulled from the Ripmax website (UK distributor)...
"With the new HRS technology operating at 3.0ms the new 3PKBHF set has over 50% faster response time than its closest competitor (6.5ms), providing any driver the ultimate in control."
So we're talking the difference between 0.0065 and 0.003 seconds... good luck noticing that!
"With the new HRS technology operating at 3.0ms the new 3PKBHF set has over 50% faster response time than its closest competitor (6.5ms), providing any driver the ultimate in control."
So we're talking the difference between 0.0065 and 0.003 seconds... good luck noticing that!
05-27-2004, 09:29 AM
#3
yeah, i hear ya. how slow are the standard radios, xr3, mars, 3pdf/pj? could they be as slow as 20-30ms? that would be detectable for sure.
any more data on the rest of the models?
any more data on the rest of the models?
05-27-2004, 09:44 AM
#4
Not something I can answer I'm afraid.
I've never felt that the car is responding slowly, even using basic Futaba Attack radio gear.
Perhaps a HRS user will be able to tell us if you can feel the difference???
I've never felt that the car is responding slowly, even using basic Futaba Attack radio gear.
Perhaps a HRS user will be able to tell us if you can feel the difference???
05-27-2004, 10:13 AM
#5
I have a Helios. I've used HSR and non HSR modes.....
Honestly, if I say it makes a world of difference, I'll be lying. I'm not Josh Cyrul or Ralph Burch to notice that much difference, however I do race 1/8th onroad - just so you know I'm not a newbie.
It is a bit difference, but it might be noticeable to some, and not noticeable to others. It's not like it's a night and day difference, and I don't think Josh or Ralph would say it's a night and day difference either.
I'd also used a JR R-1 Pro with the fPCM (their version of HSR) on a 1/12th scale before, it didn't make a whole lot of difference either, feels a bit difference, but again not a whole lot.
Also, a lot of people swear by it's night and day with HSR is probably all just in their heads.
Honestly.... 3 milliseconds....that is a very very small scale in comparison to a tenth or hundreth of a second for us to feel.
It's the latest technology and we all know technology grows everyday, or else we'll still be using Windows 3.1, I can pretty much just say that much.
Honestly, if I say it makes a world of difference, I'll be lying. I'm not Josh Cyrul or Ralph Burch to notice that much difference, however I do race 1/8th onroad - just so you know I'm not a newbie.
It is a bit difference, but it might be noticeable to some, and not noticeable to others. It's not like it's a night and day difference, and I don't think Josh or Ralph would say it's a night and day difference either.
I'd also used a JR R-1 Pro with the fPCM (their version of HSR) on a 1/12th scale before, it didn't make a whole lot of difference either, feels a bit difference, but again not a whole lot.
Also, a lot of people swear by it's night and day with HSR is probably all just in their heads.
Honestly.... 3 milliseconds....that is a very very small scale in comparison to a tenth or hundreth of a second for us to feel.
It's the latest technology and we all know technology grows everyday, or else we'll still be using Windows 3.1, I can pretty much just say that much.
if you can even feel the difference you are more then human..
05-27-2004, 10:26 AM
#7
i have heard on a few occasions that the difference is indeed detectable by human senses. i don't always believe it. that's why i like to see the specs so that i can decide myself. 
0.006 to 0.003 i don't care too much about. but i would be concerned if, for example, going from a 3pdf to a 3pk dropped 0.010 secs or more from the transit time.
if you read the hype and claims, and believe that they are true, it is very possible that the lower end radio systems are quite slower to transmit and process the data...
...if a 3pk is twice the next fastest (helios for arguments sake), and the helios is two or three times faster than its predecessor, which was faster than it's predecessor...
...simple math quickly indicates that a model from a few years back, or a few tiers down on in a manufacturers line, could easily have a response time of 20 - 30 ms.
so... what are the numbers? the factory knows them or they couldn't make the statements/comparisons that they do. if the numbers are so small that they are insignificant, then it is a poor feature to sell, and all the claims that it is detectable on the track could just be false.
0.006 to 0.003 i don't care too much about. but i would be concerned if, for example, going from a 3pdf to a 3pk dropped 0.010 secs or more from the transit time.
if you read the hype and claims, and believe that they are true, it is very possible that the lower end radio systems are quite slower to transmit and process the data...
...if a 3pk is twice the next fastest (helios for arguments sake), and the helios is two or three times faster than its predecessor, which was faster than it's predecessor...
...simple math quickly indicates that a model from a few years back, or a few tiers down on in a manufacturers line, could easily have a response time of 20 - 30 ms.
so... what are the numbers? the factory knows them or they couldn't make the statements/comparisons that they do. if the numbers are so small that they are insignificant, then it is a poor feature to sell, and all the claims that it is detectable on the track could just be false.
05-27-2004, 10:34 AM
#8
how fast is M8? Mars-R?
05-27-2004, 10:37 AM
#9
exactly
who knows?
05-27-2004, 11:05 AM
#11
Originally posted by Tres
From what I've heard:
The M8 is 13mS
and most basic radio's are in the 20-30mS range.
From what I've heard:
The M8 is 13mS
and most basic radio's are in the 20-30mS range.
05-27-2004, 11:41 AM
#12
is there any documentation out there that would allow us to compare and contrast these numbers for most of the available radios?
wow. IF that is true, a 3pk, could be 0.027 sec faster than say a 3pdf.
add that time difference to your servo transit time, and then tell me that you can't notice it. worst case ratio; servo = 0.060 secs, and radio sys. = 0.030. that would mean that for a 60* servo movement to occur, it would take 0.090 secs, and 33% of the time is due to the radio system!
wow. IF that is true, a 3pk, could be 0.027 sec faster than say a 3pdf.
add that time difference to your servo transit time, and then tell me that you can't notice it. worst case ratio; servo = 0.060 secs, and radio sys. = 0.030. that would mean that for a 60* servo movement to occur, it would take 0.090 secs, and 33% of the time is due to the radio system!
05-27-2004, 04:03 PM
#13
Tech Master
Whats the XS3's response time? 
05-27-2004, 04:04 PM
#14
Originally posted by The Black Kat
Whats the XS3's response time?
Whats the XS3's response time?
I guess no one knows.I might be trading M8 for Mars-R So im wondering.
05-27-2004, 05:18 PM
#15
I have to say...Just about ANY modern transmitter is fast enough these days.
Did you know it takes your brain 50ms to process the Pateller Reflex??? (Knee-jerk)
I'd tend to say that any supposed gain in Tx / Rx response time either now or in the future would only be noticed by robots...
Did you know it takes your brain 50ms to process the Pateller Reflex??? (Knee-jerk)
I'd tend to say that any supposed gain in Tx / Rx response time either now or in the future would only be noticed by robots...