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Old 10-26-2010, 06:50 PM   #106
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Hey thanks for the advice. Im gonna do that tonight after work.
Im from the far east and my kit is 3 years old I think but with new
suspension arms and axle bearings (expensive AE bearings). Its fitted
with a 10.5 Novak BL system so Im really optimizing every area.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:07 AM   #107
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Slight change of topic, diffs! Is it possible to build a silky smooth TC4 diff?
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:49 AM   #108
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Slight change of topic, diffs! Is it possible to build a silky smooth TC4 diff?
If you wetsand the diff and thrust rings, yes. Both a steel and plastic diff can feel smooth and buttery... even with center bushings. If you have mixed diff or thrust balls (because you lost one and threw a spare one in), the diff will feel 'wavy' no matter what you do... till you swap out all the balls.

I use an old toothbrush and plenty of motor cleaner to flush out the diff gear for a rebuild, and clean out the gear cases each time to try and minimize grit getting into the diff.

My recent finding with plastic diffs in the rear of the car is the D rings groove up fairly fast. After about 30 packs of runtime, the diff rings groove up enough to let the two diffhalves rub against the gear and turn it into a spool. Prior to that, the diff is fine.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:50 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
Hey thanks for the advice. Im gonna do that tonight after work.
Im from the far east and my kit is 3 years old I think but with new
suspension arms and axle bearings (expensive AE bearings). Its fitted
with a 10.5 Novak BL system so Im really optimizing every area.
No worries man... just have fun with it!
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:25 AM   #110
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If you wetsand the diff and thrust rings, yes. Both a steel and plastic diff can feel smooth and buttery... even with center bushings. If you have mixed diff or thrust balls (because you lost one and threw a spare one in), the diff will feel 'wavy' no matter what you do... till you swap out all the balls.

I use an old toothbrush and plenty of motor cleaner to flush out the diff gear for a rebuild, and clean out the gear cases each time to try and minimize grit getting into the diff.

My recent finding with plastic diffs in the rear of the car is the D rings groove up fairly fast. After about 30 packs of runtime, the diff rings groove up enough to let the two diffhalves rub against the gear and turn it into a spool. Prior to that, the diff is fine.
Apart from sanding the thrust rings all of the above has been done and the diff was built with new but cheap diff and thrust balls. I can't remember if they were buttery or not on the first build which was a while back but the car hasn't seen too much running, maybe 40-50 runs with 13.5t 0' timing on carpet with rubber tires. They are a bit crunchy now so I stripped the rear, cleaned, sanded the rings and rebuilt with the same balls and it's only a bit better than it was.

It certainly can't compare with the diff's in my Schumacher Mi2 which has done at least two or three times the amount of running the TC4 has and the diff's are still ever so smooth, just a side note my car's don't get used religiously every week as I run a few classes so the Schumacher hasn't had the diff's done for about 18 months, lol I did think perhaps the diff ball size between the two diff's was the reason they felt so different?
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:37 AM   #111
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For you guys with plenty of AE parts laying around... try this out. The only thing you will likely have to buy are the Tc5 slipper spool pads, and mod them to 0.83mm thickness. Just place the pad on one outdrive, and thin each pad out on some 400 grit sandpaper in a figure 8 motion. The pads cut quick, so measure frequently... thickness is crucial.

Ive been using a slipper spool in the front of my Tc3/4 for months now. You build it as you would a normal steel diff, but you use regular steel outdrives (not lightweight), remove the large diff balls, and reassemble the diff with the modded Tc5 pads in place of the diff rings, using two plastic diff bushings in the middle of the assembly.

Make sure you clean the diff gear, pads, and outdrives well. Any diff grease or oil will lessen the slipper spools effect.

Take some time to properly adjust it, as the pads will form to the holes in the diff gear and 'lock' in place. You want it tight enough to be difficult to turn the outdrives, but not impossible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since then i have changed the 'design' of the front slipper spool. Before, one CVD and axle would wear faster than the other. The one that wore faster was on the side that was 'locked' to the diff outdrive with the T-nut.

Now, both steel diff halves slip independently of the diff bolt/thrust assembly AND the diff gear.

*legend*

Modded T-nut= MT-N
Thrust washer= TW
Thrust balls= TB(12)
B4 steering rack bushing= BUSH
AE diff bolt= ADB
Long outdrive= LO
Short outdrive= SO

*assembly order*

MT-N/TW/BUSH/TW/TB(6)/TW-> LO (pad/gear/pad) SO <- TW/TB(6)/TW/ADB

My T-nut has the ears cut off... and a small hole drilled to allow a hingepin pushing tool to slide into it and lock with the slots in the outdrive for adjustment. You could just as easily slot the plastic down to the metal insert and use a flatblade screwdriver. Proper adjustment will have the diff bolt flush with the metal insert in the T-nut.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, my Tc4 had its second club race last weekend in boosted 17.5/rubber tire/asphalt class and qualified 2nd in the A... posting some of if not the fastest laps of the weekend.
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:41 AM   #112
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Apart from sanding the thrust rings all of the above has been done and the diff was built with new but cheap diff and thrust balls. I can't remember if they were buttery or not on the first build which was a while back but the car hasn't seen too much running, maybe 40-50 runs with 13.5t 0' timing on carpet with rubber tires. They are a bit crunchy now so I stripped the rear, cleaned, sanded the rings and rebuilt with the same balls and it's only a bit better than it was.

It certainly can't compare with the diff's in my Schumacher Mi2 which has done at least two or three times the amount of running the TC4 has and the diff's are still ever so smooth, just a side note my car's don't get used religiously every week as I run a few classes so the Schumacher hasn't had the diff's done for about 18 months, lol I did think perhaps the diff ball size between the two diff's was the reason they felt so different?
Yah arent those Schuie balls like 4 times the size of AE balls? lol

If i remember correct, the diff rings are thicker too. That will definitely give you a smoother longer lasting diff setup.

You need to try and use some carbide balls. The cheap chrome balls dont last as long and microscopically flat spot. That might be where the issue is? If you have some of the cheaper balls new, try putting them in and see if that fixes it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:01 AM   #113
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Thanks Dave, who would of thought another gentleman from half way round the world would of identified my balls as the source of the problem

There actually isn't as much of a difference as I originally thought it ball size, AE are 3/32" which is 2.38mm, Schumacher balls are 2.5mm. Must just be a better design then /me ducks for cover

Rofl @ the price of AE carbide balls, they are about 12 here, I can get ceramic ones for 7 unless you can recommend any cheap carbide ball stockists Dave?
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:56 AM   #114
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Thanks Dave, who would of thought another gentleman from half way round the world would of identified my balls as the source of the problem

There actually isn't as much of a difference as I originally thought it ball size, AE are 3/32" which is 2.38mm, Schumacher balls are 2.5mm. Must just be a better design then /me ducks for cover

Rofl @ the price of AE carbide balls, they are about 12 here, I can get ceramic ones for 7 unless you can recommend any cheap carbide ball stockists Dave?


Maybe im thinking of the Mission then? I remember one of Schuie's older cars that had like 8 diff balls that were close to 5mm!

Ceramic would be just as good. AE carbide balls are a little expensive, but i have been using the same balls in all of my AE kits for god knows how long with no issues. I just replace the thrust washers and diff rings come rebuild time.

'ball stockists' <- sounds like adult toy store lingo
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:52 AM   #115
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'ball stockists' <- sounds like adult toy store lingo
We cater for all sizes

Pretty sure the missions had the same size balls as the Mi2 but I know my old Cat 2000 (off road buggy) has either eight or ten 4mm carbide balls. Back ('94) then carbide balls was a big wooo when you read it on the side of the box. Cheers Dave, I'll order up some ceramics and see how it feels. I assume ceramics for the thrust race as well?
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:47 AM   #116
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We cater for all sizes

Pretty sure the missions had the same size balls as the Mi2 but I know my old Cat 2000 (off road buggy) has either eight or ten 4mm carbide balls. Back ('94) then carbide balls was a big wooo when you read it on the side of the box. Cheers Dave, I'll order up some ceramics and see how it feels. I assume ceramics for the thrust race as well?


Yeah definitely for the thrust as well. Hope it solves the issue!
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:49 AM   #117
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ok!..need some help...im running a spool in my tc4 & i keep breaking the heavy duty CVD Bones...is there another type i can get?..& who make them?...thanks
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:07 PM   #118
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ok!..need some help...im running a spool in my tc4 & i keep breaking the heavy duty CVD Bones...is there another type i can get?..& who make them?...thanks
Try the NTC3 steel cvds
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:55 PM   #119
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Try the NTC3 steel cvds
i try to look for the steel 1's...all i seen was mip..but none for the tc4 tc3/ntc3...ill look some more..thanks!!

nevermind i found them

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Old 01-21-2011, 11:50 AM   #120
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is anybody running the tub chassis??...& if so have anybody cut/trim the side wall in half...to me the car lighter...& did the performance change or stayed the same....thanks!!
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