Worried about reliability of soldered connections
05-22-2004, 09:18 PM
#31
you guys are forgetting one thing... "heat mass".
I have used all kinds of soldering tools last 30-odd yrs... some good, some hopeless.
A 100W soldering gun with the bent wire element is COMPLETELY HOPELESS for soldering batteries. Useless for electronics work too - yes I've got one. Heats up quick.
It might heat up fast (100W) but its got no where to store that heat. When you touch a big conductive surface (battery or motor tab) it'll suck all the heat away, you've got no reserves.
Conversely... a 60-80W soldering iron with a big fat element & chunky tip... that's got LOTS of heat mass. Those things take 5+ mins to heatup to working temp... but after you unplug it it'll stay hot enough to work for quite some time.
That's HEAT MASS working for you.
Touch the battery bar & flow your solder in less than 5 seconds and your cells won't even feel the pain.
But I wouldn't use that big-ass iron on delicate electronics though... get a separate iron for the tinier stuff like servo wires etc.
I have used all kinds of soldering tools last 30-odd yrs... some good, some hopeless.
A 100W soldering gun with the bent wire element is COMPLETELY HOPELESS for soldering batteries. Useless for electronics work too - yes I've got one. Heats up quick.
It might heat up fast (100W) but its got no where to store that heat. When you touch a big conductive surface (battery or motor tab) it'll suck all the heat away, you've got no reserves.
Conversely... a 60-80W soldering iron with a big fat element & chunky tip... that's got LOTS of heat mass. Those things take 5+ mins to heatup to working temp... but after you unplug it it'll stay hot enough to work for quite some time.
That's HEAT MASS working for you.
Touch the battery bar & flow your solder in less than 5 seconds and your cells won't even feel the pain.
But I wouldn't use that big-ass iron on delicate electronics though... get a separate iron for the tinier stuff like servo wires etc.
05-23-2004, 01:24 AM
#32
Tech Adept
Originally posted by stumper
Dont listen to that guy....You dont HAVE to have $100 iron to make good solder joints. I have a $6 towerhobbies 60 watt iron that works like a champ. It sounds like the iron isnt getting hot. Give it a couple minutes before you try to solder. You should be able to melt solder on the tip with ease before you can use it.
and one more thing. Use the thinner solder like the 1/32 stuff and not the 1/16. Its melts quicker and makes less of a mess.
Dont listen to that guy....You dont HAVE to have $100 iron to make good solder joints. I have a $6 towerhobbies 60 watt iron that works like a champ. It sounds like the iron isnt getting hot. Give it a couple minutes before you try to solder. You should be able to melt solder on the tip with ease before you can use it.
and one more thing. Use the thinner solder like the 1/32 stuff and not the 1/16. Its melts quicker and makes less of a mess.
say what you want, but not only will a good station work better, but it will last for years (2,3,4,5+) While a $20 iron will have a hard time making the season, if your racing week in and week out. Thats a fact jack.
05-23-2004, 01:54 AM
#33
JPHRacer - As long as you buy or build a switch to cut it from full wave to half wave the irons and the tips last for ages. I leave my weller 40wt on "half wave" every race day(7-8 hours) and it's still working great after a few months of use. On full wave I had trouble with my tips pitting but on half-wave I havn't had any trouble with the tips at all.
05-23-2004, 04:31 AM
#34
I've used Master Butane soldering irons for the past 10+ years. The only time I had a problem was with some solder I was given in an emergency. Up til then, I'd been trouble free.
All you need is...
Good hot iron with a sufficiently wide tip.
Damp sponge to clean hot tip.
Good quality solder to tin tip...then tin wire or battery bar.
No problemo.
All you need is...
Good hot iron with a sufficiently wide tip.
Damp sponge to clean hot tip.
Good quality solder to tin tip...then tin wire or battery bar.
No problemo.
05-23-2004, 02:59 PM
#35
Tech Master
Re: Worried about reliability of soldered connections
Originally posted by imjonah
Solder and me do not seem to get along. Is there some gel, paste or liquid that is both conductive and adhesive that can be used as a replacement for solder.
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B. Why in an situation where I know an object will be subject to high speed impacts and sever jolts, major g forces do I want to depend on the adhesive properties of solder to hold 2 pieces of metal together.
C. If I wrap a wire around a post, or I have some kind of connector like a deans plug or a bullet type electric plug, I can look at the connection I can tug on the wire, I can actually test the level of adhesion or security of the connection. With a soldered connection I am always afraid of pulling on the connection and I have no confidence in a visual inspection.
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My primary interest is reliability but I want to find a method which does not negatively effect the power of my car.
Solder and me do not seem to get along. Is there some gel, paste or liquid that is both conductive and adhesive that can be used as a replacement for solder.
------------------------------------------------------------------
B. Why in an situation where I know an object will be subject to high speed impacts and sever jolts, major g forces do I want to depend on the adhesive properties of solder to hold 2 pieces of metal together.
C. If I wrap a wire around a post, or I have some kind of connector like a deans plug or a bullet type electric plug, I can look at the connection I can tug on the wire, I can actually test the level of adhesion or security of the connection. With a soldered connection I am always afraid of pulling on the connection and I have no confidence in a visual inspection.
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My primary interest is reliability but I want to find a method which does not negatively effect the power of my car.
HOW DO YOU USE DEANS PLUGS WITHOUT SOLDERING THE WIRE TO THE PLUG? OR ANY OTHER CONNECTOR ON THE MARKET? PLUGS ARE USED FOR BACK YARD BASHING WHERE CONVIENENCE RULES. IN A MARKET WHERE WE PAY AN EXTRA 10.00 A CELL FOR .01 VOLTS SOLDERING IS A MUST. BUT IN THE BACK YARD OR OUT AT THE BALL FIELD BASHING YOUR READY TO RUN PLUGS ARE GREAT IF ONLY FOR THE LACK OF HAVING TO CARRY AROUND A SOLDERING IRON OR LOOKING FOR A A/C OUTLET TO EVEN USE ONE.. TELL GOOBER I SAID HEY
05-23-2004, 03:19 PM
#36
UCHEATULOSE - Firstly I know one guy at my local track who uses deans ultras and he's very quick. Second you can buy deans piggytails which already have wire soldered onto the deans plugs. All you have to do it solder the wires to the cells. I doubt there is much difference between direct soldering and deans overall.
05-23-2004, 04:36 PM
#37
Tech Master
Re: Re: Worried about reliability of soldered connections
Originally posted by UCHEATULOSE
HOW DO YOU USE DEANS PLUGS WITHOUT SOLDERING THE WIRE TO THE PLUG? OR ANY OTHER CONNECTOR ON THE MARKET? PLUGS ARE USED FOR BACK YARD BASHING WHERE CONVIENENCE RULES. IN A MARKET WHERE WE PAY AN EXTRA 10.00 A CELL FOR .01 VOLTS SOLDERING IS A MUST. BUT IN THE BACK YARD OR OUT AT THE BALL FIELD BASHING YOUR READY TO RUN PLUGS ARE GREAT IF ONLY FOR THE LACK OF HAVING TO CARRY AROUND A SOLDERING IRON OR LOOKING FOR A A/C OUTLET TO EVEN USE ONE.. TELL GOOBER I SAID HEY
HOW DO YOU USE DEANS PLUGS WITHOUT SOLDERING THE WIRE TO THE PLUG? OR ANY OTHER CONNECTOR ON THE MARKET? PLUGS ARE USED FOR BACK YARD BASHING WHERE CONVIENENCE RULES. IN A MARKET WHERE WE PAY AN EXTRA 10.00 A CELL FOR .01 VOLTS SOLDERING IS A MUST. BUT IN THE BACK YARD OR OUT AT THE BALL FIELD BASHING YOUR READY TO RUN PLUGS ARE GREAT IF ONLY FOR THE LACK OF HAVING TO CARRY AROUND A SOLDERING IRON OR LOOKING FOR A A/C OUTLET TO EVEN USE ONE.. TELL GOOBER I SAID HEY
If your bashing, wouldn't standard Tamiya plugs be just fine?
I use Deans plugs....I've never had a problem with them disconnecting & I honestly can't detect a difference in hardwiring & deans
I use a 40 Watt Weller I got from Fry's for $15...seems to work okay....wouldn't get that peticular one if I got another (tips kinda suck on the cheap wellers)
05-23-2004, 06:25 PM
#38
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
Originally posted by JPHRacer
I never said you have to have a $100 iron, but it helps, and it will by far outlast any $20 iron. Thats a fact. I can leave my iron on all day at the track 7+ hours and not have a single problem with it. I have left my hakko on for 2 days straigh on accident with no problems. Tip is still fine. Hell at the birds my iron was on for damn near a week straight, mon-sun in our booth, and there was no problems with it. Try that with any $20 iron. I had a bunch of "cheap" irons that all burnt up untill I got a good one.
say what you want, but not only will a good station work better, but it will last for years (2,3,4,5+) While a $20 iron will have a hard time making the season, if your racing week in and week out. Thats a fact jack.
I never said you have to have a $100 iron, but it helps, and it will by far outlast any $20 iron. Thats a fact. I can leave my iron on all day at the track 7+ hours and not have a single problem with it. I have left my hakko on for 2 days straigh on accident with no problems. Tip is still fine. Hell at the birds my iron was on for damn near a week straight, mon-sun in our booth, and there was no problems with it. Try that with any $20 iron. I had a bunch of "cheap" irons that all burnt up untill I got a good one.
say what you want, but not only will a good station work better, but it will last for years (2,3,4,5+) While a $20 iron will have a hard time making the season, if your racing week in and week out. Thats a fact jack.
05-23-2004, 08:27 PM
#39
Tech Master
Originally posted by stumper
I have had my $6 iron for a year and its working just fine thanks! And im sure my new hakko $11 iron will last just aslong or longer.
I have had my $6 iron for a year and its working just fine thanks! And im sure my new hakko $11 iron will last just aslong or longer.
05-23-2004, 08:29 PM
#40
Tech Master
Re: Re: Re: Worried about reliability of soldered connections
Originally posted by The Black Kat
Save this for reference:
If your bashing, wouldn't standard Tamiya plugs be just fine?
I use Deans plugs....I've never had a problem with them disconnecting & I honestly can't detect a difference in hardwiring & deans
I use a 40 Watt Weller I got from Fry's for $15...seems to work okay....wouldn't get that peticular one if I got another (tips kinda suck on the cheap wellers)
Save this for reference:
If your bashing, wouldn't standard Tamiya plugs be just fine?
I use Deans plugs....I've never had a problem with them disconnecting & I honestly can't detect a difference in hardwiring & deans
I use a 40 Watt Weller I got from Fry's for $15...seems to work okay....wouldn't get that peticular one if I got another (tips kinda suck on the cheap wellers)
05-23-2004, 08:30 PM
#41
Tech Master
Originally posted by fatdoggy
UCHEATULOSE - Firstly I know one guy at my local track who uses deans ultras and he's very quick. Second you can buy deans piggytails which already have wire soldered onto the deans plugs. All you have to do it solder the wires to the cells. I doubt there is much difference between direct soldering and deans overall.
UCHEATULOSE - Firstly I know one guy at my local track who uses deans ultras and he's very quick. Second you can buy deans piggytails which already have wire soldered onto the deans plugs. All you have to do it solder the wires to the cells. I doubt there is much difference between direct soldering and deans overall.
as for the use of the cap button: did i hurt your ears? or did it effect your eyes when you read my post? loosen up
05-23-2004, 08:32 PM
#42
Tech Master
Originally posted by UCHEATULOSE
as for the use of the cap button: did i hurt your ears? or did it effect your eyes when you read my post? loosen up
as for the use of the cap button: did i hurt your ears? or did it effect your eyes when you read my post? loosen up
05-23-2004, 08:47 PM
#43
Hmm...I use deans plugs for my batts...
So do alot of folks...I didn't know that made us "bashers."
I guess my winning the 2001 SE ROAR touring stock regionals with deans plugs was a fluke...
Clean your deans with a q-tip and some denatured alcohol and you'll be golden.
So do alot of folks...I didn't know that made us "bashers."
I guess my winning the 2001 SE ROAR touring stock regionals with deans plugs was a fluke...
Clean your deans with a q-tip and some denatured alcohol and you'll be golden.
05-23-2004, 09:06 PM
#45
Tech Master
Originally posted by Soviet
Hmm...I use deans plugs for my batts...
So do alot of folks...I didn't know that made us "bashers."
I guess my winning the 2001 SE ROAR touring stock regionals with deans plugs was a fluke...
Clean your deans with a q-tip and some denatured alcohol and you'll be golden.
Hmm...I use deans plugs for my batts...
So do alot of folks...I didn't know that made us "bashers."
I guess my winning the 2001 SE ROAR touring stock regionals with deans plugs was a fluke...
Clean your deans with a q-tip and some denatured alcohol and you'll be golden.
