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Old 08-31-2004, 08:31 PM   #136
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Hi all,

This is a work in progress bear with me, explanation on the next post.
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Old 08-31-2004, 08:48 PM   #137
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These images I have posted are from cycling a set of cells, the first one on the previous post is the main screen shot, this one is an expanded shot of the graph itself. It's just a screenshot so the image quality is not the best.

This is 2 cycles done on a 4 cell practice pack of mine first of all here is the hard data: -

charge Mah Discharge Mah secs Av V V @ 5min
cycle 1 4040 3241 388 4.47 4.69
cycle 2 4004 3283 393 4.47 4.69

Yes this is all good info many of you have seen it before. However, the first cycle was completed using linear charge, the second with soft pulse. Theoretically I could of done 10 cycles alternating between the two different charge methods, then I could average all the like charge methods and get a reasonable idea of which charge method is better for whichever circumstances I might want to use it for. For instance, if I'm going to race stock 12th then I don't care too much about run time but the average voltage info is very important, you all know what I mean and why.

On both cycles the cells were equalised before charge (I could change this or any of the other settable perameter I wanted). I peak charged with a 0.04v delta and discharged at 30A, the cells were a 3 season old set of GP3300's which I use for practice. As you can see they are still a well matched set of cells. And also I can get the data from the individual cells in the pack as well as the pack as a whole, I just didn't write it all down.

As I get better with the program and interpreting the results to build up some data I'll post which I see as better charge method for which applications and why. If we can get more people to do these studies we can back up why we think certain charge methods are better than others and why for the benefit of us all.

Lastly I want to say a thanks to kiyano for developing this program, it is still in developement but potentially the benefits are huge.

Chris
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Old 09-01-2004, 10:05 AM   #138
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Looks nice. I have been doing a lot of cycling lately, but doing my graphing in Excel because I am still waiting for the US Pro-trak dude to get new ROMS in I have only been doing linear charging. I will try to spice it up a bit and use some of the other charging methods.

I will be sure to post my results of the different methods.
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Old 09-04-2004, 12:15 PM   #139
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Hi All,

This is a lot of data but as I'm getting better at capturing it I thought you would like to see it, I was thinking about starting a new thread as a lot of people may be interested in this not just Pro Trak owners. I'll post a pic of the actual graph later.

This is 8 cycles worth of data, if you look at the info you will see that the profiles alternate between linear and Multiphasic charging. As far as I can tell there isn't a great deal of difference between the two types. There is a small variation but nothing you would get excitied about. There are other combinations of Multiphasic which could be tried and I may do that eventually.

My next test which is running now is to see if there is any difference between charging at 4 amps and 6 amps both linear charge types, I'll keep you posted. If anyone has any questions or feedback that would be great, I'd hate to think no one was interested and I'm just practicing my typing.

UPDATE :-
The data doesn't look to great pated here if you have excell I can send you the file, RC tech forums don't like excell file extensions.

Linear 6A
7:07 PM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3466 415 10 4.687 4.48 99 81 2.76 6.18
CELL1 3516 421 0 1.175 1.12 100 98 0.84 1.54
CELL2 3450 414 7 1.18 1.13 100 67 0.57 1.54
CELL3 3433 411 10 1.17 1.13 100 58 0.5 1.54
CELL4 3516 421 0 1.182 1.12 98 102 0.87 1.56

Multi Phasic 5A - 7A - 4A
11:54PM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3475 417 9 4.667 4.46 98 79 2.7 6.23
CELL1 3516 421 2 1.169 1.12 99 92 0.79 1.55
CELL2 3475 417 6 1.175 1.12 99 70 0.6 1.55
CELL3 3458 414 9 1.166 1.12 99 60 0.51 1.55
CELL4 3525 423 0 1.177 1.12 98 97 0.83 1.57

Linear 6A
4:41AM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3466 415 7 4.649 4.44 98 80 2.74 6.25
CELL1 3508 420 1 1.164 1.11 98 91 0.78 1.56
CELL2 3466 415 6 1.171 1.12 98 72 0.62 1.56
CELL3 3450 414 7 1.161 1.11 98 63 0.54 1.56
CELL4 3516 421 0 1.172 1.12 98 96 0.82 1.57

Multi Phasic 5A - 7A - 4A
9:29AM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3483 417 9 4.646 4.43 98 83 2.83 6.26
CELL1 3516 421 2 1.164 1.11 98 92 0.79 1.56
CELL2 3475 417 6 1.171 1.11 98 75 0.64 1.57
CELL3 3458 414 9 1.16 1.12 98 69 0.59 1.57
CELL4 3525 423 0 1.172 1.12 98 98 0.84 1.57

Linear 6A
2:17PM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3491 418 8 4.658 4.45 98 82 2.82 6.23
CELL1 3525 423 0 1.167 1.12 99 94 0.8 1.55
CELL2 3483 417 6 1.173 1.12 98 75 0.64 1.56
CELL3 3466 415 8 1.163 1.12 98 68 0.58 1.56
CELL4 3533 423 0 1.175 1.11 98 97 0.83 1.57

Multi Phasic 5A - 7A - 4A
7:04PM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3500 420 7 4.673 4.46 98 82 2.82 6.21
CELL1 3533 423 1 1.172 1.12 99 94 0.8 1.55
CELL2 3491 418 6 1.176 1.12 99 75 0.64 1.55
CELL3 3483 417 7 1.167 1.13 99 68 0.58 1.55
CELL4 3541 424 0 1.179 1.11 98 97 0.83 1.57

Linear 6A
11:52PM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3491 418 8 4.652 4.44 98 85 2.91 6.23
CELL1 3525 423 0 1.164 1.11 99 95 0.81 1.55
CELL2 3483 417 6 1.172 1.12 98 77 0.66 1.56
CELL3 3466 415 8 1.161 1.12 98 74 0.63 1.56
CELL4 3533 423 0 1.175 1.11 98 96 0.82 1.57

Multi Phasic 5A - 7A - 4A
4:40AM D/CAP TIME SPREAD AVE PV POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
PACK1 3483 417 8 4.638 4.43 98 85 2.89 6.25
CELL1 3516 421 2 1.161 1.11 98 94 0.8 1.56
CELL2 3483 417 6 1.168 1.11 98 77 0.66 1.56
CELL3 3466 415 8 1.157 1.12 98 74 0.63 1.56
CELL4 3533 423 0 1.171 1.12 98 96 0.82 1.57

Last edited by crimson eagle; 09-04-2004 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 09-04-2004, 02:00 PM   #140
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crimson eagle:

I never believed that multi-phase charging would do anything but I would be interested in a 4, 5 and 6 Amp comparison.

It would be interested to know if 5amp would give you an inbetween effect.
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Old 09-04-2004, 09:43 PM   #141
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Crimson Eagle,

Great data, like you said there really isn't too much difference between the linear and multiphasic charging. I think it's not a bad idea if your worried about heat in the cells during the whole charge process.

I thought at one time getting the cells warm was a good thing. What does Phil believe the temp of a pack should be when the pack peaks?

Let me know
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Old 09-04-2004, 11:53 PM   #142
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Hi Picco,

I was talking to Phil this Morning. Most of what he hears indicates that a warm pack is a fast pack, finish your charge as near to your race as possible. If my charge finishes too early I like to use the 30 second discharge before charging option on repeak.

Leadfoot, I'll post results of my 4 and 6 volt test probably Monday.

Chris.
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Old 09-05-2004, 08:14 AM   #143
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Hello!

I own a Pro-Trak version 1.50 and i saw the new software yesterday, so I downloded it to see what it was.

I know that ver 1.56 is the recomended lowest version, but it should work, shouldn't it ?

Anyway it doesn't! all i get is the error message:
"run time error 380, invalid property value"

What am i doing wrong ?
And is there any way to upgrade the charger whitouth sending it all over Europe ?

Mikael Andersson
Sweden
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Old 09-05-2004, 08:26 AM   #144
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My Protraks are also somewhat older so I canīt say anything on the software.
But you donīt have to send back the whole unit. Itīs easy upgrading the Protrak you just have to buy a new ROM and reenter the calibration values again. These calibration values are provided with each Protrak.
Contact Phil at [email protected]-trak.co.uk
More informations also at their website.
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Old 09-05-2004, 08:47 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by M422
Hello!

I own a Pro-Trak version 1.50 and i saw the new software yesterday, so I downloded it to see what it was.

I know that ver 1.56 is the recomended lowest version, but it should work, shouldn't it ?

Anyway it doesn't! all i get is the error message:
"run time error 380, invalid property value"

What am i doing wrong ?
And is there any way to upgrade the charger whitouth sending it all over Europe ?

Mikael Andersson
Sweden

Mikael,

I'm not too sure about the version of your Pro trak, is it 10.50? I thought the software was okay to use but some of the features wouldn't work. I have version 10.51 and downloaded the software but haven't tried it yet. I will try to get a charge going later today to see if it works. I will try to repost later tonight.
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:55 AM   #146
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Mikael,

Please check your version first - 10.50. Assuming thats ok, make sure you have the correct com port selected and the program is in the right place in your pc.

A little update on my latest test.

I'm using one of my better sets of cells. It looks like there is a slight improvement when charging at 6amps but not as much as you would imagine. Very slightly higher average voltage when charging at 6A. There is still a few cycles left, Should be done by tonight.

Chris.
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Old 09-05-2004, 03:18 PM   #147
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Crimson Eagle,

I just did some cycles on some of my 4 cell packs that I have not run for sometime. When doing a "cycle", I noticed that I got 102 or 101% for power, is that good? What does that actually mean?
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Old 09-05-2004, 07:44 PM   #148
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Hi Picco,

Thats ok, not great. I have been cycling my good cells, my best cycle was 111%.... I like these cells Try cycling them about 5 times and see what they are like. My next tests are going to be about 24 hours apart to give them a good rest in between.

Chris.
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:05 PM   #149
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This is the results from my last test. I have averaged the results out to give a easier to understand comparison. Linear charge, 0.04 delta. the only difference is charge amps. one cycle at 6, the next at 4, I disregarded the first two cycles as these cells have not been used for a while.

--------------D/CAP------TIME----SPREAD AVE 5 min v POWER% MATCH% E/VOLTS PEAK/V
Average 6A---3477.33---416.33---2.33---4.85---4.67---109.67---87.33---2.99---6.02
Average 4A---3488.67---418.00---1.33---4.85---4.67---109.00---86.67---2.96---6.06

Last edited by crimson eagle; 09-05-2004 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:07 PM   #150
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One thing I just thought about was that I may not be able to save the CSV file because I have version 10.51. Do you think that could be the problem? Thanks.

Ronnie
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