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Old 06-10-2010, 04:45 PM   #106
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If i may add my two cents...

RC Lemans

Group 1
Any TC Chassis
Any Battery
17.5 motor (fixed or adjustable timing is up for discussion here)
Non Adjustable ESC
24mm Track Specific Tires (Jaco Blues for example)
Aerodish wheels are acceptable
Daytona Prototype, Sebring GTP body (or other of similar style)
http://www.mcallisterracing.com/racing/page4.html

Group 2
Any TC Chassis
Any Battery
21.5 Fixed timing motor
Non Adjustable ESC
26mm Track Specific Tires (HPI X-Pattern Pro Compound for example)
NON-Aerodish wheels only
Any 2-door or 4-door commercially produced race car (Mustang, Corvette, Porsche, BMW... you get the idea)
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:51 PM   #107
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We are starting to use the sp citrix in rcgt and they are fairly quick.Is anyone that is running this class using a spec lipo,such as a 2400 or 3400 etc.the newer high mah,c batts are very strong which would make a difference in the performance of even a spec motor/sc
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:00 PM   #108
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I can't (but can) believe that the choice of running a $150 speed control has killed this class.

It is too bad that "the powers that were to be" let this class go away.

I absolutely had a blast in '09 and was very much looking forward to continuing this year.

I still stand on my decision to allow open ESC. Only in expert class? Thats fine and spec out non timing "turbo" ESC's for Sportsman.

The rest of the formula should stand as originally written except maybe for the weight. 1550g should be minimum if not 1600g.

My $.02

RCGT car still sitting on the shelf waiting.......
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:05 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Racecrafter View Post
I can't (but can) believe that the choice of running a $150 speed control has killed this class.
Hard to believe (but can) that one piece of equipment is good for two seconds or more a lap. Technology can be both awesome and terrible at the same time.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:10 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Racecrafter View Post
I can't (but can) believe that the choice of running a $150 speed control has killed this class.

It is too bad that "the powers that were to be" let this class go away.

I absolutely had a blast in '09 and was very much looking forward to continuing this year.

I still stand on my decision to allow open ESC. Only in expert class? Thats fine and spec out non timing "turbo" ESC's for Sportsman.

The rest of the formula should stand as originally written except maybe for the weight. 1550g should be minimum if not 1600g.

My $.02

RCGT car still sitting on the shelf waiting.......
Jimmy, if it were only the esc your statement might be true. Now add the price of a chassis, radio, tires,wheels and support gear. Then ask that same person with little to no experience to go out and try to effectively race against guys like you. I know you mentioned "sportsman" but thats the problem....there's no rules to divide the skill levels and 1 very fast class is not great for the majority of racers. As an experienced racer you're the minority. Now if we could decide to actually have a set of rules for Expert and sportsman, which is what most of this thread is about, then open esc's for expert might be a consideration as I don't believe the program will suffer from a minority of expert drivers using high end gear.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:36 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Charlie, thanks for chiming in. I think what you're saying is very true...to an extent. This thread has been great to aire out some opinions based on what a cross section of racers are feeling. Overall, it appears that the existing RCGT rules aren't to far from what most think it should be. I mentioned earlier that the chassis, body and wheels/tires weren't really being questioned. Realism is still number 1. Suggestions regarding wings came up but I think those are minor issues that don't necessarily need a revamp.
That being said, I don't see how the change in tires would violate any agreements with HPI. The suggested tires are stll HPI brand but might alleviate some concerns that also might be contributing to any decrease in class participation. Obviously,that would be brought up to HPI management first.
My point is, if you want to stray from HPI's RCGT, Rename the class. That is what HPI suggested when other organizations wanted to change up the rules, which i think is totally fine.
I think the big thing is to take a second look at the rules and adjust for whats happened in the market + look at how to make the program MORE appealing to a broader user base.
Again, that is fine. Create your own GT-Type class and call it a day. In the End, it is up to the race director/track what classes they want to run.
I for one have been pretty outspoken about the 17.5 being the only choice. You mentioned the integrity of the class. I agree...but its not the integrity I'm questioning. Simply the ability of more drivers to enjoy that aspect. 17.5 is simply to fast for many people. I speak as a race director and for myself. A large percentage of our drivers are newbies who neither have the driving skill or the setup skill to handle a 17.5. In addition, The distance between RCGT and TC is much to close. Especially with open ESC's. You're right, if drivers want that level of investment and speed, they should concentrate on TC.
So what I'm proposing is a sportsman addition to the class using 21.5 with closed esc's and an expert class using 17.5 with closed esc's. Make it the rule and provide RCGT with some guidance so we can concentrate on all those things that you mentioned RCGT was supposed to be. This isn't a huge departure from where we're already at. Although I do suggest a second look at the tire choice. I think some of the comments about them are pretty valid.
Here is where i disagree about 21.5.
1. HPI's Original rules had the NON-Turbo based esc's in mind when the rules were made. I still think they should stick with it.]
2. a. If you were to allow the boosted esc's, this means you WANT to go faster, right? If that is the case, why use a SLOWER motor?
b. If you get a 21.5, then you have to invest in a few sets of pinions.(More Money)
c. If you think boosted 17.5 is too fast, then there are 2 solutions.
c1. Not allow boosted ESC's and keep the 17.5
c2. Purchase a Speedpassion Cirtix Spec 17.5 Combo.
3. For the price of a 21.5 motor, you would have purchased a Cirtix Combo for $69.99(Sensored Brushless esc AND motor), the speeds would be pretty much even between everyone, and you wouldn't have to buy more pinions and smaller spurs.
4. Cirtix not only keeps the cost down, but keeps an even playing field.


In the end, it is your program. You SHOULD run it how you see fit. If the need to stray is strong, go for it. You know what your racers want more than anyone else.

I say, keep RCGT simple and keep it the way it was intended. If you want to modify the class, you have every right to, just, in respect to HPI, name it something else. I am not an employee of HPI, just feel the RCGT class should be kept RCGT.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:52 AM   #112
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Actually Dino,

As the tires go. Some tracks go thorugh tires faster the others. If you run the Pro Non Belted tires, sometimes you can only get one race day on them. People run the Pro Non belsted because they hook up better and are generally faster on asphalt. So it is a situation of run the tires or don't compete. When that happens you have a dead class.

We do not have that issue at our track or most others, but at the same time, we could find a MUCH MORE cost effect situation. just something to think about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Man, I feel your pain but I gotta tell you....If you're wasting D or Pro compound tires at that rate there's a bigger problem. The other concept behind the chosen tires was to slow things down and not to have to contend with choosing inserts. way to complicated for many. No, the grip offered by the X-Patterns may not be on par with slicks but thats the point !! You have to drive within the limits of the tires. All of us who race VTA can attest to that.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:30 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by TimPotter View Post
Actually Dino,

As the tires go. Some tracks go thorugh tires faster the others. If you run the Pro Non Belted tires, sometimes you can only get one race day on them. People run the Pro Non belsted because they hook up better and are generally faster on asphalt. So it is a situation of run the tires or don't compete. When that happens you have a dead class.

We do not have that issue at our track or most others, but at the same time, we could find a MUCH MORE cost effect situation. just something to think about.
This also depends on your setup, my friend can nuke a set of pro non belted in a day, where as I've ran the same set for 3 carpet races and 2 asphalt races.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:48 AM   #114
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Honestly, why is the ESC and Motor still an issue when you have the Speed Passion Citrix? It's only $80 for an ESC and Motor combo!! You spend twice or even double that (if you aren't sponsored) in racing! I mean this is much more welcoming to beginners than say a Tekin ESC and Combo that can cost as much as a new chassis! The thing to keep in mind is to keep this class affordable and welcoming to the beginners, and level the playing field where only skill matters.

As far as the tire choices, I don't get what part of scale realism is being missed by people going for the Sorex or Jaco wheels/tires. I understand the costs involved, but if a beginner is still learning how to setup a car, he's still going to be going through tires like crazy until he gets a good setup that won't wear out his tires as fast.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:13 AM   #115
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Hi Tim and everyone,

How about a set of pre mounted realistic treaded tires on "vintage" style spoke rims as a spec tire? No insert problems, compound confusion - just one part # to bolt on.

Oh yeah - and how about a retail price of about $15 for a set of 4. Sound good?

I know it sounds too good to be true, but it's reality. We're currently out of stock, but will have more in a couple weeks.

http://www.eastcoastbt.com/blastoff/en/product.php?p=55

East Coast is part of the King Golden brands - Speed Passion, Speed Power, etc.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:18 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryN View Post
Honestly, why is the ESC and Motor still an issue when you have the Speed Passion Citrix? It's only $80 for an ESC and Motor combo!! You spend twice or even double that (if you aren't sponsored) in racing! I mean this is much more welcoming to beginners than say a Tekin ESC and Combo that can cost as much as a new chassis! The thing to keep in mind is to keep this class affordable and welcoming to the beginners, and level the playing field where only skill matters.

As far as the tire choices, I don't get what part of scale realism is being missed by people going for the Sorex or Jaco wheels/tires. I understand the costs involved, but if a beginner is still learning how to setup a car, he's still going to be going through tires like crazy until he gets a good setup that won't wear out his tires as fast.
Good Morning All.
HarryN....Esc/motor still an issue answer is simple....17.5 is still to fast for the average new driver. And even if you disagree with that...why would it be bad to allow clubs/tracks the chance to offer a legitimate 21.5 based sportsman class ?? It hurts nothing. As for tires, I still have yet to see any other option that meets 2 simple guidelines
1. 26mm width ( in order to use the wide variety of 26mm wheels)
2. More than 1 compound ( to allow for different track surfaces and conditions)

Last edited by Evoracer; 06-11-2010 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:18 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
Hi Tim and everyone,

How about a set of pre mounted realistic treaded tires on "vintage" style spoke rims as a spec tire? No insert problems, compound confusion - just one part # to bolt on.

Oh yeah - and how about a retail price of about $15 for a set of 4. Sound good?

I know it sounds too good to be true, but it's reality. We're currently out of stock, but will have more in a couple weeks.

http://www.eastcoastbt.com/blastoff/en/product.php?p=55

East Coast is part of the King Golden brands - Speed Passion, Speed Power, etc.
Can these be offered in +6 offsets so they could be run under 200mm bodies as well?
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:21 AM   #118
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Shawn, thanks for joining in. Couple of questions:
1. Is this 26mm
2. Will the wheel be available in different offsets
3. Will different wheel designs be available
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:22 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
How about a set of pre mounted realistic treaded tires on "vintage" style spoke rims as a spec tire? No insert problems, compound confusion - just one part # to bolt on.
Those are actually pretty modern looking rims. They look like Advans or Gram Lights. For $15 a set, you can't go wrong. I'd love to try them out.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:28 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
Hi Tim and everyone,

How about a set of pre mounted realistic treaded tires on "vintage" style spoke rims as a spec tire? No insert problems, compound confusion - just one part # to bolt on.

Oh yeah - and how about a retail price of about $15 for a set of 4. Sound good?

I know it sounds too good to be true, but it's reality. We're currently out of stock, but will have more in a couple weeks.

http://www.eastcoastbt.com/blastoff/en/product.php?p=55

East Coast is part of the King Golden brands - Speed Passion, Speed Power, etc.
Very nice...May have to rename the next RCGT series at The Track to GT and go with these a a spec tire. Can't beat $15. So what's the catch? They don't last, brittle?
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