RCGT....Where is it at now?
06-10-2010, 11:07 AM
#77
Any chance you could just change the wing ? Seems with all those aftermarket plastic wings you could find one thats suitable. I think in the spirit of what Habiki was saying the STOCK spoiler would probably do...even it's lexan. I think this rule would apply more to bodies that typically come with some sort of high downforce wing. the rule has to be reasonable....If ALL the realistic bodies that HPI makes were available with molded wings that would be great but we shouldn't be so quick to limit choices. If anything, lexan wings can be easily cut down to be REASONABLY realistic. Hows that ??Rumour has it that you're so slow no amount of wing would ever help !
06-10-2010, 11:11 AM
#78
Love you too Adam !! Any chance you could just change the wing ? Seems with all those aftermarket plastic wings you could find one thats suitable. I think in the spirit of what Habiki was saying the STOCK spoiler would probably do...even it's lexan. I think this rule would apply more to bodies that typically come with some sort of high downforce wing. the rule has to be reasonable....If ALL the realistic bodies that HPI makes were available with molded wings that would be great but we shouldn't be so quick to limit choices. If anything, lexan wings can be easily cut down to be REASONABLY realistic. Hows that ??
Rumour has it that you're so slow no amount of wing would ever help !
Any chance you could just change the wing ? Seems with all those aftermarket plastic wings you could find one thats suitable. I think in the spirit of what Habiki was saying the STOCK spoiler would probably do...even it's lexan. I think this rule would apply more to bodies that typically come with some sort of high downforce wing. the rule has to be reasonable....If ALL the realistic bodies that HPI makes were available with molded wings that would be great but we shouldn't be so quick to limit choices. If anything, lexan wings can be easily cut down to be REASONABLY realistic. Hows that ??Rumour has it that you're so slow no amount of wing would ever help !
It's to damn hot outside, friggin miserable conditions to race in.
And a wing rule like that would give me an excuse to get the HPI Lexus body which i like anyway...I'm in favor of the wing rule for sure
06-10-2010, 11:16 AM
#81
06-10-2010, 11:23 AM
#82
The more I read all this ,the more I wonder "Just what are we trying to accomplish ?" It seems RCGT is a good class and we want to see it survive but there's a lack of guidance that's starting to have a negative effect. Technology surges have increased expense and the distance between RCGT and TC has decreased to the point where RCGT is almost reduntant. In my mind this is bad. My idea of RCGT, and I may be wrong, is that it should be a more mainstream effort to get AND KEEP new drivers interested in the hobby by way of its more realistic, less expensive, more competitive nature. Some will argue that slowing things down will make it less fun. If thats the case, what would stop these folks from racing TC class where they can get the speed fix they want.
That said, here's a basic plan that could be adopted as the "NATIONAL" accepted rules.
1. Nobody has a problem with the body choices...leave them alone.
2. Nobody has a problem with chassis choices..... leave them alone
3. Leave the tire/wheel choices as they are. Great learning tool and as tires are a disposable item, cost is measured over long term and not that much different than spec tire.
3. Make the choice of driver level options discretionary amongst track and clubs. IE
a. Sportsman: 21.5 with fixed esc's (Cirtix, Havoc, etc)
b. Expert: 17.5 with fixed esc's. A step up option...driver can move to expert easily. Slight variations for timing advance could be made on a per club/track/event basis.
Every group then has an option to run a legitimate RCGT program that conforms to a national set of rules. No one has to worry that they're running a rogue program. When a RCGT "sanctioned" event happens, all the drivers know they have cars that conform to the rules.
And yes, I realize there's a bunch of people who have already invested in RS's,Black Diamonds, and software upgrades and thats unfortunate. It's a shame that decisions weren't made to curb that situation but it's done. Now we have to stop the madness and take our lumps before we lose sight of the fact that RCGT needs to attract new blood and can't be all about catering to those who simply did what the rules didn't plan for.
That said, here's a basic plan that could be adopted as the "NATIONAL" accepted rules.
1. Nobody has a problem with the body choices...leave them alone.
2. Nobody has a problem with chassis choices..... leave them alone
3. Leave the tire/wheel choices as they are. Great learning tool and as tires are a disposable item, cost is measured over long term and not that much different than spec tire.
3. Make the choice of driver level options discretionary amongst track and clubs. IE
a. Sportsman: 21.5 with fixed esc's (Cirtix, Havoc, etc)
b. Expert: 17.5 with fixed esc's. A step up option...driver can move to expert easily. Slight variations for timing advance could be made on a per club/track/event basis.
Every group then has an option to run a legitimate RCGT program that conforms to a national set of rules. No one has to worry that they're running a rogue program. When a RCGT "sanctioned" event happens, all the drivers know they have cars that conform to the rules.
And yes, I realize there's a bunch of people who have already invested in RS's,Black Diamonds, and software upgrades and thats unfortunate. It's a shame that decisions weren't made to curb that situation but it's done. Now we have to stop the madness and take our lumps before we lose sight of the fact that RCGT needs to attract new blood and can't be all about catering to those who simply did what the rules didn't plan for.
As far as the ESC, I begrudgingly agree. I'd rather everyone have something similar to a SpeedPassion Citrix ESC where you cannot play with turbo or timing advance (also to prevent cheaters). For only 80 bucks, you get an ESC and a Motor. That is very attractive in my eyes and I am sure in a new comer's eyes.
When batteries get involved, we have so many batteries available on the market and many ranges of output. I'd say go for the more affordable battery and make it spec to keep costs under control.
As far as tires, the more I think about it, the more I am siding with leaving this part alone, namely because different tracks have different kinds of traction. But as far as shrinking them to 24mm... might as well go TC.
As far as splitting up classes, that could happen later down the line when more and more newcomers join in. But right now, if a newcomer were to come up to a racer and ask "Wow! This is pretty cool! How much did all this cost?" You want to give an answer that doesn't sound expensive but more bang for the buck. For example, here is how not to pitch to a newcomer: "Well little Billy *spits in spitoon*, This chassis here cost me $180. The speed controller and motor cost me another $80. This here radio cost me $300. Body, tires, and rims cost me 10 to 20 bucks each. This here BAT-er-ree cost me a cool $90 clams!"
Instead you can pitch it as; "The whole shebang cost me about $500, versus close to a grand on what I would spend on the more high end stuff. But the great thing is most of what you purchased can be transfered to a faster TC later on when you're ready."
This is just my two cents. I think the underlying issue in making this class more appealing is to make it as affordable as possible.
06-10-2010, 11:39 AM
#83
Tech Adept
I like the rule to allow the track\club to specify which 24mm non-dish pre-mount tire can be used for their RCGT class. For the following reasons:
(1) Because then everyone in the world running RCGT doesn't have to rely on HPI rim\tires.
(2) One thing I don't like about the HPI tire is that who knows what inserts are being used in the tire? I guess you could peel back some of the tire to check if a racer's tires were in question.
(3) I don't like having to glue rubber tires to rims if I can already buy them pre-mounted.
(4) I can use them in the TC class as well.
(1) Because then everyone in the world running RCGT doesn't have to rely on HPI rim\tires.
(2) One thing I don't like about the HPI tire is that who knows what inserts are being used in the tire? I guess you could peel back some of the tire to check if a racer's tires were in question.
(3) I don't like having to glue rubber tires to rims if I can already buy them pre-mounted.
(4) I can use them in the TC class as well.
(1) HPI tires last about 1 race. (how many people will you retain because they have to replace their tires every race?) Gets expensive.
(2) Realism: Real GT cars use treaded if it's raining (I don't race in the rain)
06-10-2010, 11:40 AM
#84
All good points.
First, 24mm wheels/tires shouldn't happen. No particularly good reason to do it. As for the tire compounds...I'm still on the fence but leaning toward leaving available x-pattern choices alone. 1. premounts are out...everyone should be able to choose the wheels within rules. 2. I honestly think that learning about tire compounds can be a good thing. We've all been there....you try a compound and it sucks...you move on. Tires WILL wear out and you will replace them. Long term cost isn't substantially more than what it will cost to spec and have them wear out quickly because they're not quite right for your track or because your setup creates wear.
Batteries : I don't know that this is a MAJOR contributing factor for a driver to be any better driving his/her car BUT, in the interest of cost control i think we could stick with the 5000mah limit and maybe go with a 30-35c limit. Either way, we'd have to adjust according to current available products. Just reading through many threads, it seems 30-35c is pretty average.
Classes, it'll always be up to a driver where they want to be for the most part. Any club or track has the right and responsibility to tell a driver they're a problem on the track if they can't handle a car. And you're definitely right about marketing the hobby....there's a right way and a wrong way. Cost should be kept REASONABLE but 2 classes will only help growth potential. Many clubs, like mine, are way to small to think of offering an expert class but many have more than enough racers to offer both. The emphasis will always be toward sportsman simply because the larger percentage of drivers don't consider themselves expert.
First, 24mm wheels/tires shouldn't happen. No particularly good reason to do it. As for the tire compounds...I'm still on the fence but leaning toward leaving available x-pattern choices alone. 1. premounts are out...everyone should be able to choose the wheels within rules. 2. I honestly think that learning about tire compounds can be a good thing. We've all been there....you try a compound and it sucks...you move on. Tires WILL wear out and you will replace them. Long term cost isn't substantially more than what it will cost to spec and have them wear out quickly because they're not quite right for your track or because your setup creates wear.
Batteries : I don't know that this is a MAJOR contributing factor for a driver to be any better driving his/her car BUT, in the interest of cost control i think we could stick with the 5000mah limit and maybe go with a 30-35c limit. Either way, we'd have to adjust according to current available products. Just reading through many threads, it seems 30-35c is pretty average.
Classes, it'll always be up to a driver where they want to be for the most part. Any club or track has the right and responsibility to tell a driver they're a problem on the track if they can't handle a car. And you're definitely right about marketing the hobby....there's a right way and a wrong way. Cost should be kept REASONABLE but 2 classes will only help growth potential. Many clubs, like mine, are way to small to think of offering an expert class but many have more than enough racers to offer both. The emphasis will always be toward sportsman simply because the larger percentage of drivers don't consider themselves expert.
06-10-2010, 11:41 AM
#85
The large problem I see with using a cheap spec chassis is that the racers will basically be forced to buy everything all over again when they decide they are ready to step up to faster racing. In our local GT class we have many beginners who we encourage to buy used (affordable) race level chassis's so they can grow with the car. For instance, you can find many used Tamiya TRF415's, Associated TC5's, and Xray T2's on the used market with spare parts for $150.
This means in 6 months or a year when they are ready to leave RCGT and race pro touring, they still have a car capable of competing without having to replace the car or spend a lot of money on upgrades. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Our track has a bit of a market place for everything. When the "pros" upgrade from a 45c to a 50c pack after only 3 months of use, a budget minded racer can snatch up a perfectly good lipo pack for pennies on the dollar.
This means in 6 months or a year when they are ready to leave RCGT and race pro touring, they still have a car capable of competing without having to replace the car or spend a lot of money on upgrades. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Our track has a bit of a market place for everything. When the "pros" upgrade from a 45c to a 50c pack after only 3 months of use, a budget minded racer can snatch up a perfectly good lipo pack for pennies on the dollar.
06-10-2010, 11:45 AM
#86
06-10-2010, 11:46 AM
#87
The large problem I see with using a cheap spec chassis is that the racers will basically be forced to buy everything all over again when they decide they are ready to step up to faster racing. In our local GT class we have many beginners who we encourage to buy used (affordable) race level chassis's so they can grow with the car. For instance, you can find many used Tamiya TRF415's, Associated TC5's, and Xray T2's on the used market with spare parts for $150.
This means in 6 months or a year when they are ready to leave RCGT and race pro touring, they still have a car capable of competing without having to replace the car or spend a lot of money on upgrades. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Our track has a bit of a market place for everything. When the "pros" upgrade from a 45c to a 50c pack after only 3 months of use, a budget minded racer can snatch up a perfectly good lipo pack for pennies on the dollar.
This means in 6 months or a year when they are ready to leave RCGT and race pro touring, they still have a car capable of competing without having to replace the car or spend a lot of money on upgrades. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Our track has a bit of a market place for everything. When the "pros" upgrade from a 45c to a 50c pack after only 3 months of use, a budget minded racer can snatch up a perfectly good lipo pack for pennies on the dollar.
06-10-2010, 11:49 AM
#88
Man, I feel your pain but I gotta tell you....If you're wasting D or Pro compound tires at that rate there's a bigger problem. The other concept behind the chosen tires was to slow things down and not to have to contend with choosing inserts. way to complicated for many. No, the grip offered by the X-Patterns may not be on par with slicks but thats the point !! You have to drive within the limits of the tires. All of us who race VTA can attest to that.
if they feel "full" (you can tell from a TC insert and the stock foam insert). that person gets DQ'ed for the round.... no ifs, ands or butts.
if and when you guys move forward with this.. take inserts out of the equation and just say "use the stock inserts". DONE.
06-10-2010, 11:50 AM
#89
The large problem I see with using a cheap spec chassis is that the racers will basically be forced to buy everything all over again when they decide they are ready to step up to faster racing. In our local GT class we have many beginners who we encourage to buy used (affordable) race level chassis's so they can grow with the car. For instance, you can find many used Tamiya TRF415's, Associated TC5's, and Xray T2's on the used market with spare parts for $150.
This means in 6 months or a year when they are ready to leave RCGT and race pro touring, they still have a car capable of competing without having to replace the car or spend a lot of money on upgrades. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Our track has a bit of a market place for everything. When the "pros" upgrade from a 45c to a 50c pack after only 3 months of use, a budget minded racer can snatch up a perfectly good lipo pack for pennies on the dollar.
This means in 6 months or a year when they are ready to leave RCGT and race pro touring, they still have a car capable of competing without having to replace the car or spend a lot of money on upgrades. This doesn't only apply to cars either. Our track has a bit of a market place for everything. When the "pros" upgrade from a 45c to a 50c pack after only 3 months of use, a budget minded racer can snatch up a perfectly good lipo pack for pennies on the dollar.
06-10-2010, 11:56 AM
#90
Using the stock inserts has always been the rule. so the "point" of having to "choose" the right inserts is invalidated. tech the tires is easy.
if they feel "full" (you can tell from a TC insert and the stock foam insert). that person gets DQ'ed for the round.... no ifs, ands or butts.
if and when you guys move forward with this.. take inserts out of the equation and just say "use the stock inserts". DONE.
if they feel "full" (you can tell from a TC insert and the stock foam insert). that person gets DQ'ed for the round.... no ifs, ands or butts.
if and when you guys move forward with this.. take inserts out of the equation and just say "use the stock inserts". DONE.
Yep, I was talking about the old days when we could get 24mm tires and then buy different temp range inserts. God I'm old !!
So far, I'm still sticking with current tire rules. With stock inserts !!