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Old 06-08-2010, 12:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
I have no idea what RCGT actually is or even what the letters stand for.

After googling it I could not find a good set of rules/etc.....

This will die unless some rules are put in place and everyone agrees to them...
Just a guess but typically "GT" stands for Grand Touring.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:16 PM   #17
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We are just starting to through the idea around in Vegas. We are starting to agree on having a Sportsman class with non-advanced timing speedos (GTB, Havok, RTR LRP, etc) with 17.5, then an expert class with open ESCs and 17.5.

It would be nice to see an organization take over and set rigid (non-vague) rules for clubs to easily follow. A complete list of acceptable bodies, more tires, and electronics limits would be a start.

Remote Controlled Grand Touring
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:18 PM   #18
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We are just starting to through the idea around in Vegas. We are starting to agree on having a Sportsman class with non-advanced timing speedos (GTB, Havok, RTR LRP, etc) with 17.5, then an expert class with open ESCs and 17.5.

It would be nice to see an organization take over and set rigid (non-vague) rules for clubs to easily follow. A complete list of acceptable bodies, more tires, and electronics limits would be a start.

Remote Controlled Grand Touring
RCGT is copyrighted (is that the right term?) by HPI Racing. So you would need permission to use that name.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:03 PM   #19
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I think it's just a matter of time that the current on-road and off-road classes are replaced by "real" on-road and off-road classes. The next step of the evolution of rc is to go to the next level with bigger prizes and bigger sponsorships and the only way to do this is to get real car, sports drink, eyewear, clothes, etc mfr's in the mix.

Also, it's a branding thing...How do you sell a Ford truck to a 12 year old? Sell them a 1:10 Ford Truck RTR and when they turn 16 they'll want want one. See what AE and their partnership with the off-road series is trying to do!?!?! Although the RC community is such a small segment, it's still an important one because it feeds to other "wheeled" type hobbies (motorcyles, cars, atv's, etc). Building brand recognition to a young person early is important to a mfr to continually sell their products to them throughout their lifetime. Oakley - great example...See the pro drivers using Oakley's, the kid is gonna want some nice Oakley's for rc racing and they'll use Oakley's forever in whatever other hobby or sport they get into in the future...

As for RCGT, all it will take is for one racer to win in the Expert or Open TC classes (or atleast be competitive) with a non-traditional pill type touring body and the masses will start to change.

Last edited by Apex; 06-08-2010 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:35 PM   #20
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Can't help it when the guys in 17.5 timing don't want to slow down to no timing and too scared to run 13.5. They will have to move up or down eventually. In terms of speedos, many of the companies are making specific software for no timing. With the exception of the KO's variable frequency system, most esc's, cheap or expensive, will be on equal grounds.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:06 AM   #21
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I think having "Sportsman" and "Expert" classes hurts RCGT in the end. Most tracks don't have enough entries to split up RCGT into two classes. I think all of RCGT should have the spec motor/speedo (no timing) combos and let everyone run together. Yes, the fast guys will still be faster even with the same spec speedos. But rather than having two classes with not enough entries to fill a heat, you will hopefully have a couple of heats and a couple of full mains for some more exciting racing.

If the "Expert" RCGT was 17.5/open speedo, what differentiates it from Stock Touring? Only a couple of tenths.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:22 AM   #22
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The only way to keep a true "spec stock" GT class is to just decide on one esc/motor combo and stick with just one period. Tamiya has been great with their class rules with no exceptions and everyone is happy. I basically sold off all of my on-road cars because of the constant battle of electronics. When you have a 1000 dollar car that's supossed to go slow is crazy. Takes the fun out of everything. I am happy to see the Cirtix, gives me hope. Once the rules are finally set I will reconsider GT.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:52 AM   #23
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I think if we are going to talk about spec racing for GT, then we should also consider tires as well. This should keep costs down even more.

I also think it should also be important to have a future rule of a spec chassis as well. Something like the OFNA JL10e. It's not only cheap, but comes pre-built, is extremely simple to setup, simple to fix, and parts don't cost an arm and a leg. But something like this should be a future rule as not everyone can make a switch overnight. But the cost of the chassis is cheap enough to do something like that.

My two cents.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:56 AM   #24
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I think if we are going to talk about spec racing for GT, then we should also consider tires as well. This should keep costs down even more.

I also think it should also be important to have a future rule of a spec chassis as well. Something like the OFNA JL10e. It's not only cheap, but comes pre-built, is extremely simple to setup, simple to fix, and parts don't cost an arm and a leg. But something like this should be a future rule as not everyone can make a switch overnight. But the cost of the chassis is cheap enough to do something like that.

My two cents.
If you go to a spec tire, spec chassis, spec speedo, spec motor, where do you draw the line? Then to REALLY be fair wouldn't you have to spec the battery, the servo, the body, the rims, the upgrades on the car, etc. etc., just so nobody has an advantage?
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:05 AM   #25
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Therein lies one problem. The TCS series is great on paper but the racing venues are few and far between. I'd love to participate in the series, but there are no venues in Florida.

When a manufacturer sponsors a series, they can spec everything to their products; right down the the nuts and bolts!

For something nationwide like RCGT it's hard to limit products to one manufacturer. That's why at club level, RCGT is hit or miss. Some clubs buy into one set of rules, while another club buys into another set and then you end up with a decline.

Much like VTA, RCGT needs a solid set of clubs to work on rules and equipment. They can then dictate the rules to other interested clubs that are willing to buy into it.

However, as my one of my bosses used to say, "That's a great idea! Way to take the intiative and get that project finished."

The question is, who'd be willing to step up and get that project done?
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:34 AM   #26
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Aren't HPI X-patterns already the spec tire for RCGT? I know there are two compounds available but that is still pretty limited. Also, If any on-road class wants to gain the popularity of something like SCT (if that is possible), then the class should accomodate some inexpensive RTR cars in their box stock form and those cars should be competitive in their box stock form. Currently, this is the only way to get beginners interested in racing. If they can spend around $200, open the box and go racing, they might give it a try.

What I see as the problem with on-road is that it is difficult to get started in all these spec classes for somebody that doesn't understand R/C racing to begin with. The way spec classes are currently defined, it basically caters to existing racers or maybe old-timers getting back into the hobby. Maybe instead of specifying everything, RCGT should relax rules a bit based on some RTR cars in their ready to run form and place heavy specs on kit cars and modifications instead. Place limits on dollars spent on the RTRs that are available and maybe only allow tubs or plastic / fiberglass chassis (like the OFNA and Sprint 2) that are produced specifically for cost containment.

I see all kinds of RTRs that would make a great class that could draw new blood into the hobby instead of redistributing the existing racers. The Kyosho "Ready-Set" cars, Thunder Tiger Tomahawk VX, HPI E-10 and Sprint 2 RTRs, Tamiya TT-01 and other tubs would all make for some close competitive racing. What's really missing in on-road is a class that a beginner can compete in without having to understand a bunch of complex class specs. All they would need to know is that they can race the car they bought for around $200 in a class and be competitive.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:41 AM   #27
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Great points beemerfan.

I think there are a lot of options for X-pattern tires. Pro belted, pro non-belted, D-compound, pre-mounts, and the rims you pick play into it all. The price can vary greatly.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:45 AM   #28
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It would be great if ROAR tracks implimentes the Spec Rules once they are in place for GT. I do agree on a spec tire of maybe two choices depending on which surface you run but thats it. Everything open. Throttle and turning are the only two functions on any car/truck without it you have nothing, so if you set the bar everyone should follow. In a perfect world
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:55 AM   #29
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Yep, no matter what is said here, the end results will have to be decided by someone. So I'll ask the question again :
IS THERE CURRENTLY ANYONE TASKED WITH OVERSEEING THE RCGT PROGRAM ?? IF SO, PLEASE LET US KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

IF NOT. WOULD ANYONE BE WILLING TO BE PART OF A SMALL "ADVISORY" GROUP ?

It seems the Florida contingent came out in force with the last few comments. Don't think I know you guys personally but I know you speak from experience. I was actually hoping to see someone write those words. I agree that having Sportsman and Expert classes is unnecessary as a prime rule. Let individual clubs set that up based on their needs. My initial comment suggested 2 classes but I knew that the Expert class was redundant for the same reasons the whole program suffers now.....too close to 17.5 TC. Why bother? So the emphasis would, AND SHOULD, be on the Sportsman class.
FACT: VTA has it down right and we should be using them as a model.
FACT: 17.5 is to fast even without timing or boost AND leaves too little of a ladder stretch between it and TC.
FACT: We also don't want to be just like VTA. Why? we have more performance options in the form of TIRES. Yes, we can REASONABLY run a bit faster and still focus on attracting drivers of all skill levels and keep costs down as much as possible. Leave all 3 tire choices as a tuning option. They're already available and can be treated as a learning step up the ladder.

So with that in mind, I'd like to suggest RCGT take the same approach as VTA....Get with Novak and make the Novak 21.5 package the standard for RCGT.
We've got to start somewhere and we could use Novak's solid support.
And again....If a club wants to offer a Expert class with some other variation....go for it. Just remember that when "OFFICIAL" RCGT races are run, the standard is there and you need to conform with it.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
If you go to a spec tire, spec chassis, spec speedo, spec motor, where do you draw the line? Then to REALLY be fair wouldn't you have to spec the battery, the servo, the body, the rims, the upgrades on the car, etc. etc., just so nobody has an advantage?
Well batteries do also play a role here too. Some have more punch than others. So that may not be a bad idea.

As far as servo, rims, and upgrades, that's just ridiculous to standardize unless you have a spec chassis/brand you are using.

As far as body, that just ridiculous as well. RCGT is about racing realistic cars. Otherwise it would just turn into TC.
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