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Old 06-16-2010, 02:50 PM   #226
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1450 grams is going to be next to impossible to reach with cheap tub style cars. Keep in mind that our bling bling low offset wheels and tires weigh more, nobody is going to have micro receivers or low profile servos, bodies with intricate paint jobs and decals weigh more, etc. etc. My vote is for 1500 grams at least, if not 1550.
I'm going to object with you sir. The Speed Passion Citrix combo, as well as a lot of other ESCs out nowadays are pretty compact. Radio system receivers are also starting to become more and more compact, even with cheaper radios.

1450 is a good baseline since this was the weight requirements when heavier NiMH batteries were being used. LiPo batteries are much lighter.

1500 I can deal with as well. But the heavier the car gets the slower the car becomes, the more you bear on your motor, and the lower the runtime. Granted it is not by much, but still.

Plus I thought his class was to be the bridge between VTA and TC? Why are going for a weight limit to that much higher than TC? 1450 is a middle ground in my opinion.

As far as run what you brung, that is going to cause problems all over the place. Plus that already exists in parking lot gatherings.

Before we go off topic or take inputs for more ideas of the class, bear in mind that all ideas have to cater to newcomers of the hobby. Affordable and fair.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:55 PM   #227
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BTW T.J.....what are you guys using at Village ??
RCGT has been in limbo since the Tekin and Black Diamond were released. Tim made a quick decision to ban v203 and Black Diamond's but we were in the middle of our series so besides that change we were pretty much running the original RCGT rules.

These days we are 100% Cirtix. The rest of the rules are being hashed out. Tim's and my involvement in this thread reflect thoughts we have about our local program which I think can be applied and adopted to a more nation-wide series.

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I'd also like to add a thought. Weight limits as part of the standard rules are great and I see the value....but keep in mind it's just another variable that can be used ..or not. At the club level or by race organizer decision....this is another choice. The goal should always be to attempt living up to the standard but nobody is gonna pluck an eye out over it.
Definitely agree with this.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:58 PM   #228
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Damned good answer HarryN. I was thinking on it and it seems to me that 1475 would be a good standard. The lighter weight cars could be brought upwards without adding a ton and the heavier cars won't be SIGNIFICANTLY heavier. Someone mentioned earlier a 416 that could be brought in at 1400 or less......then you have the heavier cars at 1500-1550. It sounds like 1450-1475 would be the workable choices. So how bout the compromise at 1475 ?? 75 grams to the lightest mentioned weight and 75 grams to the heaviest mentioned weight. far enough away from TC and slightly lighter than a VTA car.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:01 PM   #229
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Plus I thought his class was to be the bridge between VTA and TC? Why are going for a weight limit to that much higher than TC? 1450 is a middle ground in my opinion.
I don't consider RCGT to be a bridge from VTA to TC. Why? Because there are very few clubs that have enough of a turn out to run VTA, RCGT, and TC! I really think VTA and RCGT compete against each other and most clubs run one or the other. For us, we ran VTA at first, but when RCGT got popular we ran that instead, mainly because most of our racers are younger and the RCGT bodies have more appeal.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:06 PM   #230
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I don't consider RCGT to be a bridge from VTA to TC. Why? Because there are very few clubs that have enough of a turn out to run VTA, RCGT, and TC! I really think VTA and RCGT compete against each other and most clubs run one or the other. For us, we ran VTA at first, but when RCGT got popular we ran that instead, mainly because most of our racers are younger and the RCGT bodies have more appeal.
Thats why it's important to create it as a stand alone program. I guess in the grand scheme of things we could always try and create programs that follow a ladder path upwards in performance, complexity and cost, but the reality is that a program should be created with the idea of KEEPING people involved and interested in it. The ladder is always there....some will climb it and some won't.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:09 PM   #231
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Kinda surprised you jumped in there Charlie. I think it's cool that you would. I'm glad to see the various answers ....somewhere there has to be a common ground. Although I agree with Charlie in some ways....I also see the value in having to meet weight. TJ mentioned it earlier. For those that CAN have a light weight chassis and small electronics....the difference in performance can be noticed.....particularly if it's a more experienced driver. Again I'm going to use VTA as a resource. They're going to 1550 soon. So does anyone see a legitimate problem with 1500.......or are we gonna make reenmachine a happy guy and go to 1475 !?
BTW T.J.....what are you guys using at Village ??
I'd also like to add a thought. Weight limits as part of the standard rules are great and I see the value....but keep in mind it's just another variable that can be used ..or not. At the club level or by race organizer decision....this is another choice. The goal should always be to attempt living up to the standard but nobody is gonna pluck an eye out over it.
The point is again, you are giving people more reasons to think about. If someone considered running RCGT, and wanted to use an older car(Brand x) they should just do it. When you put a weight limit, then they will now contemplate "Is it worth it to run this old brand x car if i am xxx grams overweight? I will be slow...forget it..im not gonna buy stuff to make it lighter nor am i gonna buy a new, lighter car". Although this is an example, you can look at a newbie who wants to participate. I know i would be turned off by the weight thing.
THe suggested rules are great. Keeping less rules and making it easier for a newcomer to participate in is even greater. Weighing cars are great if u have the staff to do it. How about smaller tracks like mine where i am the only one running the show? Delays anyone?

WHen we had our first RCGT Club race in the US at Hobbytown Corona, the rules were simple and not complicated. That was the draw for 99% of my racers. Save the crazier racer rules for the TC crowd and keep this class simple and fun.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:09 PM   #232
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Damned good answer HarryN. I was thinking on it and it seems to me that 1475 would be a good standard. The lighter weight cars could be brought upwards without adding a ton and the heavier cars won't be SIGNIFICANTLY heavier. Someone mentioned earlier a 416 that could be brought in at 1400 or less......then you have the heavier cars at 1500-1550. It sounds like 1450-1475 would be the workable choices. So how bout the compromise at 1475 ?? 75 grams to the lightest mentioned weight and 75 grams to the heaviest mentioned weight. far enough away from TC and slightly lighter than a VTA car.
Actually, not a bad idea now that I give it more thoughts. 1475 sounds more of a middle ground. Sign me up.

M-Technic, I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, in most other places where the situation is not the same as your club, the GTRC class will be more of a stepping stone to the ultimate TC. Or, it could become more popular and more raced in since it is more affordable and more appealing than TC.

By the way, is anyone keeping notes on all things being discussed here to actually formulate the new rules or considerations, should HPI not even consider these discussions?
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:15 PM   #233
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Batteries....anybody against the 30c limit ?? I'm using 4000 25c Zippy's with no problem so I'm all for it.
I think it should be 40C max. 40C cells are old news and there are alot of them out there. I run Thunder Power/Fantom 5000 40C and those are really popular. 50C + are the hard core race packs nowadays so they should be banned.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:15 PM   #234
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The point is again, you are giving people more reasons to think about. If someone considered running RCGT, and wanted to use an older car(Brand x) they should just do it. When you put a weight limit, then they will now contemplate "Is it worth it to run this old brand x car if i am xxx grams overweight? I will be slow...forget it..im not gonna buy stuff to make it lighter nor am i gonna buy a new, lighter car". Although this is an example, you can look at a newbie who wants to participate. I know i would be turned off by the weight thing.
THe suggested rules are great. Keeping less rules and making it easier for a newcomer to participate in is even greater. Weighing cars are great if u have the staff to do it. How about smaller tracks like mine where i am the only one running the show? Delays anyone?

WHen we had our first RCGT Club race in the US at Hobbytown Corona, the rules were simple and not complicated. That was the draw for 99% of my racers. Save the crazier racer rules for the TC crowd and keep this class simple and fun.
Charlie, if no weight limit is put in, then the faster cars will be the lighter cars. I doubt the newcomer is going to enjoy seeing his older car get creamed with or without weight limits.

Plus there are cheaper chassis available, like the OFNA JL-10e.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:17 PM   #235
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Actually, not a bad idea now that I give it more thoughts. 1475 sounds more of a middle ground. Sign me up.

M-Technic, I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, in most other places where the situation is not the same as your club, the GTRC class will be more of a stepping stone to the ultimate TC. Or, it could become more popular and more raced in since it is more affordable and more appealing than TC.

By the way, is anyone keeping notes on all things being discussed here to actually formulate the new rules or considerations, should HPI not even consider these discussions?
Now that would suck !!!! I'm pretty old ya know....
I'll make sure to post a summary of all the accepted rules so I make sure nothing gets screwed up. I've got a call into HPI...waiting to get a call back to see if the proposed RCGT rules will fly or a new GT program will be born.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:28 PM   #236
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At our track, people are, and cosidering stepping DOWN from 17.5 TC to GT. Some like the realism aspect and some think 17.5 is too close to 13.5. It is thinning out the classes but it is our hope that the growth, spectacle and close racing of GT will attract newcomers.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:32 PM   #237
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Hey, where you been !? You started this whole thing ya know !!

Good to hear about your track. Its sounding very positive so far.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:39 PM   #238
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I remember RCGT rules at one point being mod motors and any 26mm HPI tire. We tried this at our track, but mod was too fast for most guys. The real point is that they still sell the 15-40 slick tire that came with the Pro2.

I see a lot of good ideas out here, but I still say the biggest problem is that it's too close to regular sedan. Especially when the tire goes to 24mm. You may as well just mount up a cool body and register for 17.5 tc.
THANKS ROB...Ive been reading all this to catch-up...thanks to you I dont need to read any more...this was my point from start...Its sounds to me that you need to really look at VTA and 17.5 TC..and run down why and what makes these work and for who....

I said that RCGT is a bridge to gap VTA and TC(17.5)...the more changes are pushed towards a TC class, with cool bodies...adding a slick wont help newbies/rookies/beginners..it will make them quit...and here is why...most ppl(new) dont have a clue about 24's,32's,28's ect, hot track temp, cool...and all the crap that come with a slick...but I bet you tell them that you have 3 different tires to choose from and a MILLION rims to pick to make your ride..YOUR RIDE, without it looking like mine, or John, or Mike's...

and dont even get me started on the inserts....double this and that, orange, pink...sounds like carpet racing.....

and to anybody whinning about gluing tires...OMG...isnt this a hobby...build something lazy....or buy the pre-mounts like I got at the Nats...

as far as the esc...I still think the rules at the Scale Nats this year work very well...

hope that everybody keep in mind that alot of classes have a major manufactor behind it......incl VTA...HPI tires, and most bodies...what...RCGT sounds like VTA on JUICE...LOL...

Lets just race two of the best on-road classes out there...
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:06 PM   #239
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Wow, thats a bit harsh. Apparently you didnt read enough.
The esc situation is handled and quite easily. The ROAR list makes sense and the SP Cirtix is an available option. Clearly it will be the popular choice simply based on price but at least there's choices. And the 21.5 will be available as an option to those who want it.
Tires haven't changed...except any club or race organizer has the additional option of the 2 compounds of HPI 26mm slick. No temp ranges, no major choices....Just 2 compounds. Dont use them or use them....Only 1 insert is being proposed. HPI #4677. Which happens to be the same insert that comes with the x-patterns.
As for gluing...you're right. Its a fact of life and a minor situation at best.
Wheel choices remain large.....another reason for pushing the HPI 26mm slick.
And manufacturer support is exactly WHY this proposal is being made. HPI is the most important supporter and I think we all know it. Every effort is being made to keep that relationship strong and indeed strengthen others (like SP ) without isolating others for no good reason.
Read that again...you'll find that there isn't a huge departure from the existing rules....just updating them. If anything they should help to strengthen the program and make things more stable...which is what every new driver looks for. And yes, VTA is a damned good example but RCGT isn't VTA and it isn't TC. As for a bridge....couldn't care less. Like I said before....the ladder is always there, some will climb it and others won't. Pray that I'm right or you'll have a very transient driver base in spec specific classes like VTA. God knows I don't see you guys grooming people to LEAVE VTA...if anything you've made a considerable effort to keep them involved.
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:09 PM   #240
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and whats arong with this?

Here is how to get the RCGT Challenge started at your local track:
- Any 1/10th scale 4WD Touring Car chassis.
- Any "realistic/scale" Touring Car/GT body (No "Race" bodies, Stratus, Mazda 6 etc.)
- Bodies should represent models that are running or had been run in the Touring Car, GT2, GT1 classes in ALMS, LeMans, Speed Challenge etc.
- Any 26mm spoked wheels (no dish wheels)

Allowable X-Pattern tire choices are up to the race organizer, with competitiveness and cost in mind:
- HPI #4790 X-Pattern Radial Tire 26mm D-Compound (base spec tire)
- HPI #4490 X-Pattern Radial Tire Pro Compound 26mm (stickier compound for improved traction)
- HPI #4495 X-Pattern Radial Belted Tire Pro Compound 26mm (sticky and belted tire, allows for more speed)
- Kit Lexan wing (flat realistic wing if included) or Plastic realistic wing set(s) only (keeping in mind the spirit of realism of the class)
- 27T/17.5 Motor Limit.
- 6 cell NiMH or 2 cell LiPo 7.2/7.4v battery limit.
- Suggested minimum weight limit: 1450 grams
- Sportsman ROAR ESC or Scale Nats ESC selection



Keeping the spirit of the class, scale realism, the final decisions on specs should be decided by each local track/organizer and should reflect the local flavor of the track/racers.

sounds like a winner to me
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