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Old 06-16-2010, 08:29 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Sounds like we're doing pretty well...looks like there's general agreement on:
1. Wings...molded highly suggested ..any lexan must be cut to proportion.Lexan wings not allowed in Concours
2. Batteries..Lipo 2S,5000mah,35c limits
3. esc/motors...according to ROAR sportsman list with addition of Cirtix 17.5 and 21.5 ( Has anyone run the cirtix and another system like the ballistic/havoc who might share a comparison ?? )
4. 21.5 available as additional option at club or race organizer discretion.
5. Tires....x-patterns are standard with option of HPI slicks #4435 or #4415 at the discretion of club or event organizer. ( doing some checking on inserts but it looks like the HPI #4677 might be the most similar to whats in the x-patterns. Keep it simple....Any thoughts ?? )

6. Body rule stays the same.

Are we there yet ?????

HarryN....look forward to your thoughts on the Cirtix. My hope is that any difference between it and something like the Havoc Pro/Ballistic are so small its not worth worrying about. Bottom line is people have options for different manufacturers. At the Cirtix pricepoint its gonna be hard to pass up on for many, many people. That is until someone steps up and competes at the same level.
Personally, I have no problem with any of this. I'm really curious to see how the Cirtix thing pans out and if they end up offering a zero-timing version (still not 100% clear that this isn't already the case). You have to assume that there will be other similar inexpensive combos on the market before too long as well.

I also like the "chop your gigantic whale tail down to 15mm" compromise.

One more open issue: minimum weight. 1450g? 1500g?
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:37 AM   #197
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Minimum weight is important and often overlooked. It should definitely be higher than the normal TC weight limits. My TA05 RCGT car was something like 1,550 grams last time I weighed it.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:47 AM   #198
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It seems kind of silly to have a true sportsman level class ,with the goal of getting people involved being number 1, and still hold on to concepts like weight requirements. I agree....FAT IS GOOD !! It's realistic, sportsman level racing....make it easy enough that with a decent car ( and a very high percentage are) running to the specs....anyone should be able to race. Lets come up with a number....1550 is the highest I've heard based on a well known chassis (ta05). Would 1500 be reasonable ?? )sorry...edit...I goofed
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:52 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
It seems kind of silly to have a true sportsman level class ,with the goal of getting people involved being number 1, and still hold on to concepts like weight requirements. I agree....FAT IS GOOD !! It's realistic, sportsman level racing....make it easy enough that with a decent car ( and a very high percentage are) running to the specs....anyone should be able to race. Lets come up with a number....1550 is the highest I've heard based on a well known chassis (ta05). Would 1500 be reasonable ?? )sorry...edit...I goofed
It seems kind of silly to go through the trouble of spec'ing the motor, speedo, and battery, and then give someone a speed advantage because they are 200 grams lighter! My 416WE would be well under 1400 grams without the weight I have added to it, 150-200 grams lighter than my TA05.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:56 AM   #200
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More I think about that figure, the more I think 1450 might be better....had to think about where most of our club members were at last time we weighed. I know my XXXS was under 1500. Isn't TC at 1400 or 1400+ ??
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:01 AM   #201
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Do I hear 1475?

Let me look back a few pages to what Jimmy (Racecrafter) suggested.

EDIT:
Quote:
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1550g should be minimum if not 1600g.
That's probably a bit high. Even my TA05 would have to be loaded with lead to make it.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:03 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
More I think about that figure, the more I think 1450 might be better....had to think about where most of our club members were at last time we weighed. I know my XXXS was under 1500. Isn't TC at 1400 or 1400+ ??
TC is 1,400-1,450 depending on the sanctioning body. There are talks of sub-1,400 weights with the advancement of lipo worldwide.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:09 AM   #203
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My bad, looked up the rules we ran under at that race. 1500 was the number they used. So...does 1500 sound like a good compromise ?
Pete, don't know if you were joking about the 1475 but don't see why it couldnt be a valid choice.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:16 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
More I think about that figure, the more I think 1450 might be better....had to think about where most of our club members were at last time we weighed. I know my XXXS was under 1500. Isn't TC at 1400 or 1400+ ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
Do I hear 1475?

Let me look back a few pages to what Jimmy (Racecrafter) suggested.

EDIT:


That's probably a bit high. Even my TA05 would have to be loaded with lead to make it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
TC is 1,400-1,450 depending on the sanctioning body. There are talks of sub-1,400 weights with the advancement of lipo worldwide.
In Europe the TC minimum is already 1350g.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:26 AM   #205
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Yikes...isn't that a bit on the light side for RCGT Rick ?? I suppose if everybody was running new chassis and the lightest electronics that might do but many of us aren't. Like M-Technic said....it would be a pretty large variable for a lighter weight car against one thats on the beefy side without added weight.
Maybe that 1475 number isn't so unreasonable ?? Need help !!
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:39 AM   #206
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I think my argument is being misunderstood. I am saying that with a higher end TC chassis running in RCGT you could have a serious weight advantage over a tub chassic car, and thus, we really should have a weight limit that is higher than TC.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:53 AM   #207
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I think my argument is being misunderstood. I am saying that with a higher end TC chassis running in RCGT you could have a serious weight advantage over a tub chassic car, and thus, we really should have a weight limit that is higher than TC.
Isn't that what I said TJ ?? Either way...I agree. So whats the magic number ??
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:26 AM   #208
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In Europe the TC minimum is already 1350g.
...and we aren't running TC.

I think everyone agrees that the weight should be at a level where it's not a handicap to run a less-expensive chassis like a TA-05 or Cyclone TC.

USVTA uses 1450g, and they have put a lot more thought and testing into all of this over the past few years than we could ever dream to. They are also a series that puts fun, close racing and Sportsman-friendliness above all else so I trust their judgment.

I'm sure Rob or Doug could shed some light on how they arrived at 1450g, and it would be worth listening to.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:40 AM   #209
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I think 1450 is a good weight to start with and test the waters. Most Tub chassis cars and beginner cars are around that weight anyways (Cyclone Type S, TA05, TB03, TL-01, HPI Sprint 2, etc).

I'll put my vote down for 1450.

As far as the Batteries, ESC, Motor, Bodies, Wing, Tires, here are my thoughts:

Wings

GT wings preferred, but if using a molded wing that comes with the body, try not to make it as large as a car stand. Aim for scale realism.

ESC + Motor

As far as ESC and motors, preferably a no-timing adjustment on motors and boost/turbo adjustments on ESCs. It is why I am heavily leaning towards the SP Citrix combo. If the Citrix ESC can in fact be tuned for turbo, and you need to purchase the LCD panel access port (AP), think about a beginner coming into the hobby. Do you think they would spend that much money to buy something they do not comprehend yet? I think this is a non-issue for now. But once I get my hands on the combo, I am going to check it out.

Leaning towards the 21.5/17.5 Citrix combo for now, since it is the best bang for buck for beginners.

Wheels/Tires

Rules for now states using the HPI rims and X-pattern tires with stock inserts. But given the proper setup, X-pattern tires can last if treated properly or the same TLC is given to these tires as the TC tires (WD40, Lighter Fluid, Jimmy Joe Bob's Most Awesome Extreme Tire care sauce, etc.). But I think this area should be left open until Shawn Palmer gets some more Blast Off tires in stock and we are able to try em out.

But I will say to throw in the Tamiya 24mm realistic rims and tires with stock inserts in addition to the 26mm HPI rims and X-pattern/Slick tires with stock inserts. But leave it open until testing is done with the Blast Off wheels and tires. Has anyone noticed the treads are very similar to Tamiya's tires??

Approved tires (for now):

HPI#4733
HPI#4734
HPI#4735
HPI#4495
HPI#4490

Bodies

HPI and Tamiya bodies. No change here.

Minimum Weight

I am shooting for 1450 since that is the usual weight most RTR or beginner cars weigh in at. Sometimes the weight is just under 1450 and is not too hard to get up to 1450.

Batteries

5000 mah 30C

My two cents.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:55 AM   #210
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how about banning those "all white"-type paint jobs?
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