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Old 05-10-2004, 12:32 PM   #16
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Trinity doesn't have them available for sale....

Even if they did, they would not be legal for racing at any ROAR event.

As for motor designs.....tell ROAR to remove the stupid rules saying how we can build a motor and you will see motors that last longer, run cooler and give better performance for a similar price. Right now though, we are stuck on magnet type, armature size and type....makes it kinda hard to build a motor that you have little hope of getting legalized.

My company is in process of designing such a motor...

You can check out some pics at

http://www.rccars.com/forums/showthr...&threadid=1648

You will also see some pics of our prototype stock motor....

Later EddieO
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by murfy
true but someone will have to make some pretty good brushless motors. not like those novaks.
Novak's BL system is of the first generation. The actual systems are of the 4th gereration, and much much better than the Novak.

The actual tendancy is to 3Cells Lipoly (+11V) with smaller motor and very low gearing, this way the amps drawn from the cells are lower so it doesn't damage the cells.

However, it's a dangerous technology for the moment, yes they can burn, they have no resistance to shocks (can start burnin even 10 minutes after the crash), and they cannot supply as high an amount of current as the actual NiMH.

Good points are the weigh (much lighter !), absolutely no memory effect nor auto-discharge, and the fact that it's going to evolve to provide more current, more security etc... So I think we can expect a lot from this technology, in like 5 years (time for the NiMH technology to be at its limits).
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Old 05-10-2004, 01:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Orion and GM-Racing does have them here but the point is nobody used them at the Nationals two weeks ago. Everybody was using the GP3300.
hmmm..not very good news for these cells as of now.

I agree with several posts on here. We do not need more run time, what we need are cells that are more robust, cells that will hold run time, ir and voltage well over the no. of cycles we are getting right now (20-30cycles if that). Racers i know are forever buying new cells just to be competative...and a fresh new pack will always perform better.

Think about it, what are we racers most concerned about racing EP? Batts!!! how fresh the pack is, how well it was stored, if it was equalized, what amp charge was used, volt threashold used, how warm the pack was after charge, should i re-peak just befor the heat etc etc etc etc!!!!.....

Keeping up with the Jones' so-to-speak should'nt be what EP racing has become. There are more than enough factors to consider when racing EP... and batts, i feel, should not be on the top of that list!!!

my .2 centavos

Peace and happy racing to all
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:01 PM   #19
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i totally agree with glide1...
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cain
I got some GP 3600s, actually like 3900s, they charge up that high all the time even with dead shorting

I personally would like to see more durability advances with the cells.
hmm, well I just got some new cells, thanks ron, (gp3300s) that are charging to 3900 from a 5.4V discharge, and now that I am taking them down to zero, just got my new discharger in, they are charging up to 4200+
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by glide 1
hmmm..not very good news for these cells as of now.

I agree with several posts on here. We do not need more run time, etc...
Well, think about how great it would be to be able to have 10 minutes heats !

Right now, with the actual 3300s we could move to 7 minutes races with 12T motors, just need to have them geared and prepared properly for such a duration (mostly to keep them cooler).
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cobra81li200
Well, think about how great it would be to be able to have 10 minutes heats !
My hands would get tired.
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by =MisFitz= NuKe
ahhh, but see, with brushless we could all go back to 2000mah, and still make 5 min. So, yes, STLNLST is correct, they need to work on better motors that will last longer, and take good use of all of the energy in the batteries.
The hacker brushless 6t motor and comp esc can dump a 3300 pack in under 5 minutes.
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:42 PM   #24
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Here's my biggest question concerning motors.....when trinity came out with their P94 brush theory which we were told was better and would be more eff. and have more power due to more contact area.....we never really got to see if this was true because racing was switched from 4min to 5min because the powers that be said that the batteries were good enough to run longer races. Lets just say the 3600 were legal. What would we as racers get from it. 12th scale might be the only class I think would benefit from it as there isn't that much drag on the motor from a 12th scale compared to the sedans that we run. If the equipment could actually handle being run the way we are talking about I'd love to have a longer heat race or main......Another thing I see is that all of the new motors that are coming out are killer designs and new technnology but the same compound brushes from yester year. Let's balance out the game and put the batteries on hold and catch the motors up a bit. We can't have the batteries at a 10 and the motors at 5 or 6.

just my $0.10 because I added to my $0.02....
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:57 PM   #25
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if you run Mod 1/12th scale 8 - minutes or Mod TC 5 - minutes.........you always need runtime

if your running 4 minutes races probably not. unless the new cells have better voltage than the GPs. if they do....then the 3600 will better because you will end up with a higher volatge average over your 4 - minute run
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by fast-ho-cars
if you run Mod 1/12th scale 8 - minutes or Mod TC 5 - minutes.........you always need runtime

if your running 4 minutes races probably not. unless the new cells have better voltage than the GPs. if they do....then the 3600 will better because you will end up with a higher volatge average over your 4 - minute run
I can get easily 6 minutes out of my GP's in national level, of course this has a 12T limit and rubber.

Let's put it this way : the GP are underrated actually. They were rated 3300's when they came out, but they could easily be rated 3800's now. so the 3600's Sanyo released are just trying to keep up with them, and don't have as much punch or runtime for the moment (but no doubt they'll get better with newer batches as the manufacturing process develops and gets better), so they're not worth bothering about right now.

By the way, I wanted to add that if you guys moved to 5 minutes races, it's because the rest of the world was racing 5 minutes races, and did not have any problems since the 2000s cells.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:06 PM   #27
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If you ever ran mod touring car on high bite carpet with foam tires and 7 turn motors you would understand why more capacity would be nice... we dont have a 12 turn rule here!
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cobra81li200


By the way, I wanted to add that if you guys moved to 5 minutes races, it's because the rest of the world was racing 5 minutes races, and did not have any problems since the 2000s cells.
That's true but if you look at Trinity's theory of their big brush of increased run times some of us regular racers never got a chance to test that theory because by the time the motors were at hobby shops the 5 min racing was in effect. I don't have all of the answers but it's a problem when you have to replace brushes just about every run. If the track isn't too hot I can get a some decent runs out of a pair of brushes. When the track temp is 140+ one maybe two runs if I'm lucky if I'm running to be competetive.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:59 PM   #29
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STLNLST, if what they said about the brush theory is true then why did Dieter 99% of the time cut down the width of the brush so it was more like original standup brushes?

I think in order for it to have worked properly is that they would have had to increase the com size a little bit so they didn't have to trim down the brushes, but that is my theory.
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Old 05-10-2004, 10:22 PM   #30
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Right now, with the actual 3300s we could move to 7 minutes races with 12T motors, just need to have them geared and prepared properly for such a duration (mostly to keep them cooler). [/B][/QUOTE]

Japan already runs 8min races .... in 23t class though. I think europe's implementation of the 12t limit for mod racing is very good....not all will agree. A 12t motor has always been considered to be a 'mild modified motor' but there are pro's and cons to this which most of us know. I think it makes for better racing, more emphasis on motor tuning and gearing, car setup etc, and most of all it is not as hard on the batteries.

Quote:
Let's balance out the game and put the batteries on hold and catch the motors up a bit. We can't have the batteries at a 10 and the motors at 5 or 6.
I agree with STLNLST. I think a move to better more efficient motor design is also a must, Orion/Peak V2 range of motors are alredy going this direction.
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