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Old 05-08-2004, 08:37 PM   #1
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Default Chasing Speed

I have a newbie type question, I race at a tight asphalt high grip track with my Mission (first model) and I run in 540 pro (stock johnson motor)
I have posted this in the schumacher corner but have not had much response so I thought I'd try in the general forum

I have my car steering and handling what appears to be very nice, well at least to my requirements, but the car is slow compared to most of the other racers.
I know I will pick up some time as i get better at driving, but the other night I could string together a series of laps with good lines, without even letting off the throttle, but my laps times are still down. I'm running similar if not the same gear ratios as most of the other drivers.

I was wondering what can I do to my set up to make it faster, but without upsetting the steering and handling?
I know most things are a compromise, but i was thinking about going harder springs or going from 3 to 2 holes on the shock pistons.

I'm using a diff, some guys are using the diff, others 1 ways and some are going spool, but most seem consistant no matter which form of front drive they are using.

I'm using blue springs on the front and reds on the rear and only have the rear sway bar connected. if I was to go heavier springs, would I still keep the difference between front and rear, ie go to reds at the front and yellows at the rear to keep the same balance?

I have 4mm of droop at the rear and 2mm at the front
1.5 camber at front 1.0 at rear
6 degrees caster
0.5 toe out on front
2.0 toe in on rear

Normally use take off 27's or 22's but lately just the 22's
Should the car be softened up to use the 22's or should the same set up work for both tyres

Thanks for any help
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Old 05-08-2004, 08:45 PM   #2
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Try hooking your motor up to a D cell battery and diping it in watter or 7up. The copper in the brushes is more conductive than water so don't worry about electrocuting yourself. This will really help to seat the brushes as they are very hard.
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:07 PM   #3
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Thanks for the quick reply


Tried that on a new motor, but both motors have the same output

The motors are a closed can and are not allowed to be opened or modified in any way, so cutting coms or brushes is out also.
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:08 PM   #4
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What esc do you use?
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:18 PM   #5
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its all about car setup. the trick is to get the handling balanced. What tyres are you using. Tyres are the major part of the setup and if the tyre selection is wrong your car wont fast. Ask what other people are using. Or try a whole different bunch of inserts, each run try a different set of inserts. Glue the outside of the tyre and partially glue the inside of the tyre so you can peel back the rubber and change the insert. Just be careful that you dont tear the belting.
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:19 PM   #6
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Also, what batteries do you use? 540 is supposed to be a beginners class but where I race most of the fast guys are using 1.17+ GP 3300's and replacing them often just like in 27turn rebuildable. High voltage & low IR's make for fast motors that newbies generally can't compete with.
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:30 PM   #7
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basically u need better batteries. without the good batteries u will not be with the top drivers in your class' pace because they will outpower you with more voltage
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:32 PM   #8
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High corner speed is also a critical part of being fast in 540 racing. You must make sure not to wash off to much speed through corners, this means slow, smooth transmitter inputs and a car that is setup to be smooth and consistent ( not to twichy).
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Old 05-08-2004, 10:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Chasing Speed

Quote:
Originally posted by ratter
I have a newbie type question, I race at a tight asphalt high grip track with my Mission (first model) and I run in 540 pro (stock johnson motor)
I have posted this in the schumacher corner but have not had much response so I thought I'd try in the general forum

I have my car steering and handling what appears to be very nice, well at least to my requirements, but the car is slow compared to most of the other racers.
I know I will pick up some time as i get better at driving, but the other night I could string together a series of laps with good lines, without even letting off the throttle, but my laps times are still down. I'm running similar if not the same gear ratios as most of the other drivers.

I was wondering what can I do to my set up to make it faster, but without upsetting the steering and handling?
I know most things are a compromise, but i was thinking about going harder springs or going from 3 to 2 holes on the shock pistons.

I'm using a diff, some guys are using the diff, others 1 ways and some are going spool, but most seem consistant no matter which form of front drive they are using.

I'm using blue springs on the front and reds on the rear and only have the rear sway bar connected. if I was to go heavier springs, would I still keep the difference between front and rear, ie go to reds at the front and yellows at the rear to keep the same balance?

I have 4mm of droop at the rear and 2mm at the front
1.5 camber at front 1.0 at rear
6 degrees caster
0.5 toe out on front
2.0 toe in on rear

Normally use take off 27's or 22's but lately just the 22's
Should the car be softened up to use the 22's or should the same set up work for both tyres

Thanks for any help
you might try going to a 4 degree caster block, if your car seems to turn in very hard you scrubbing speed in the corners . If your car is getting a little loose in the rear it could be cuz your weight transfer is off front to rear..even though your car is driving good to you right now .. Id try the 4 degree and heavier spring rate first .. just my 2 cents
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:45 PM   #10
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I'm using a Novak Atom esc
At the momment due to weather I'm using mostly take off 22's with the standard insert, if it's warmer take off 27's again with the standard insert.
I'm thinking about getting a few sets of matched batteries to give me an edge, some of the guys i'm chasing are using matched sets but others are not, that's why I thought it still may be the car itself holding me back.
The set up I was using last week was turning in rather good but maybe it is gripping to much and slowing the car down, after the 2nd heat, I had 2 people come up to me and say how well the car sat on the track and turned, but maybe I need it a little loose at the front to get some more speed?
I like the car to go where it is pointed rather than understeer, but maybe i have to sacrafice some front grip to get the speed?
That's why i need some of your opinions
I thought if i went the harder springs I may be able to carry some more corner speed, but not sure if that is correct or not.

Thanks for all the suggestions
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:48 PM   #11
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Default Re: Re: Chasing Speed

Quote:
Originally posted by mb racer
you might try going to a 4 degree caster block, if your car seems to turn in very hard you scrubbing speed in the corners . If your car is getting a little loose in the rear it could be cuz your weight transfer is off front to rear..even though your car is driving good to you right now .. Id try the 4 degree and heavier spring rate first .. just my 2 cents
I have the earlier mission, The choices I have for caster are 6, 8.5 or 11 degrees, I have just gone to 6 degrees to get it to turn how i want.
I may try the harder front springs, but part of my question is, if I change front and rear springs up 1 step (there will still be a difference between front and rear) would the car still turn as it does now?
thanks
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Old 05-09-2004, 12:17 AM   #12
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No offence but your running a belt car....

Belt cars are inefficient from getting the power to the wheels compared to a shaft driven car

So yes your car is holding you back...but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to be a better driver
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Old 05-09-2004, 12:31 AM   #13
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The proformance difference between a belt car and a shaft car is negligible, and IMO will not stop anybody from winning a race. A mission is more than capable of winning a race against a shaft car.
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Old 05-09-2004, 12:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Black Kat
No offence but your running a belt car....

Belt cars are inefficient from getting the power to the wheels compared to a shaft driven car

So yes your car is holding you back...but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to be a better driver
if this isn't the most ignorant statment i've seen on rctech, i don't know what it.
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Old 05-09-2004, 12:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rowdy
The proformance difference between a belt car and a shaft car is negligible, and IMO will not stop anybody from winning a race.
True...if the pulleys & car are geared right then true. Its just easier to make a shaft car out accel a belt car (atleast at a club level)

Quote:
A mission is more than capable of winning a race against a shaft car.
Ha ha...ha ha....ha ha......*5 years later* HA! the MI2 is competative against a shaft car.....wouldn't say its any more capable though

On the same tone....its probably not less if its tuned right
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