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Old 10-07-2004, 08:44 AM   #586
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Thumbs up IFMAR Body list

I am most relieved to see that common sence has "actually" prevailed in this IFMAR Worlds body dilemma. I was starting to wonder if it existed at all in the rc world. Forgive me for my sarcasm, but this went on far too long.

I want to make a few points to hopefully clarify in "some" minds a few body issues.
In Sept 2003 I read that Mazda Motorsports would probably be replacing the aging ProtegeES sometime in 2004 with the Mazda6 model in the SPEED WORLD CHALLENGE Touring Car Series. My first thought was that this body style would be attractive and with a very few changes would be a great RC body. I thought it would be a welcomed departure from the "Stratus/Alfa" rut that most racers were in. Because the real car is sold on every continent of the world and was going to be racing in the "WORLD" CHALLENGE touring car series, I felt it would be easily certified as ROAR, EFRA, FEMCA, FAMAR, BRCA and IFMAR legal. WOW.... Was I wrong!
The real Mazda6 has raced most of the season with Jeff Altenburg at the helm. The PROTOform version has been very successful and used by the winners of the ROAR ON-Road & Gas Nationals, Reedy Race of Champions (USA & Asia) etc.
Now it appears that the real source of the Mazda-trouble is surfacing. The full size Mazda6 that sells in the UK has a slightly different configuration in the truck lid area. In the UK it is a hatch-back so it has virtually no trucklid. To complicate matters further, there's a certain EFRA official in the UK who will look for "anything" to prevent PROTOform-style bodies from being used over there. He appears to want racing to be " a meeting of enthusiasts with electric powered rc operated model car replicas." Seriously, he doesn't "get it". He doesn't seem to understand that with the new age of hi-tech chassis with 6 turn motors and 3300 cells, a body is required that compliments the entire package and makes it driveable. I've attempted to find a balance between realism and functionality with all our bodies geared toward sanctioned racing. The PROTOform Mazda6 has not been "fudged" or distorted any more than other PROTOfrom body in ths category. (before you guys start screaming about the "Nemesis", it was NOT created for sanctioned racing events) Just wait, when we get to the Worlds in Florida, some pretty unbelievable rc body abberations will be brought in from Japan, and get this....they will all be officially.... "IFMAR APPROVED". Kinda just blows my mind after what I've been throught the last 5 weeks.
This particular individual and a few others in the UK are incredibly "subjective" when critiquing PROTOform bodies, but they do not give any clear objective guidelines for me or any other moldmaker to follow. They use the word "reasonable" and expect everyone to envision the same identicle thing. They keep me "guessing" as to what will be ok in their minds. Not fun, especially when you've spent a month on a new mold.
I have some ideas of how to bring some sensible guidlines to the "body approval - body inspection" process. I spent a few days preparing it a few years ago. I sent it to ROAR at the time and still have heard absolutely nothing. I've reminded them about it, but they still have no comment. I doubt they even took the time to read it.
I love this sport and want to see it grow and be healthy. I've tried to be sensitive to the "big picture" of what's good for the sport. New and interesting products are an integral part of what will keep it healthy. We need cool chassis, fast motors and sticky tires, and we also need to have CONTEMPORARY attractive bodies that work well. NASCAR has come up with a way of satisfying the fans as well as Ford, Chev and Dodge by purposely allowing "liberties" in the body shapes, to encourage driveability, and parity. They probably don't understand this in the UK, but it sure seems to work well for the most successful racing organization on the planet.

Thankyou for your support. I welcome your responces.

Sincerely - Dale Epp - PROTOform
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Old 10-07-2004, 08:48 AM   #587
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Dale:

I agree!
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Old 10-07-2004, 09:48 AM   #588
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Dale, I also agree with you.

Granted Tamiya had a big hand in starting the TC evolution, that was when the cars were much more to scale (Tamiya loves scaled down replicas) in width, height, details ... etc. As this category of RC racing grew, the cars got wider, wheels and tires got wider, and bodies became more of a tuning aid.

And IMO, the Mazada 6, right down to the decals, is spot on (except for the UK trunk lid area). And not only that, it handles. I see lots of bodies from over seas that don't even have realistic headlights. They're more artistically done. And that's probably just to keep it from looking like another Stratus (which isn't even being raced by Dodge anymore). Just look at all the creative paint jobs you see at these big events. Never did I see a realistic replica paint scheme to mimic real TC Series cars. But that because RC racers at that level want to or have to show off there sponsors logos. And customize there bodies as their own mark in the industry. Much like a full scale racers helmet.

Anyways, some rules should bend as well as some attitudes. We gotta keep this sport creative, rolling and alive. Keep up the good work, Dale!
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:52 AM   #589
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What the need to realize is that we really don't race replicas. We race full size Radio control race cars. They just happen to be small race cars but at this point, they aren't a "scaled down" anything. I do think they do need to resemble full size touring sedans as a guidline, but I don't think we need to run replica interiors or mirrors.
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:21 AM   #590
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Hear, hear! Exactly the point I was attempting to make earlier. I fully agree with Dale and the rest of you. This is a racing class on its own and should be handled as such. While this doesn't mean that anything should go, rules that makes sense to RC car racing should be established, just like the current rules surrounding wings are RC rules and not reflective of 1:1 scale racing rules in that area.

Some have made humoristic remarks that in two years time we might need handout batteries and bodies. Let me add some more: hand out transmitters, handout speedo's, handout chassis, etc. Personally I don't think it's so funny anymore as this is the wrong discussion to have. We have to start taking this seriously as a racing class in it's own right, or quit organising events like the Worlds that appear to be completely out of touch with what is happening on the tracks around the world.

My 2 cents.
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:50 AM   #591
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Quote:
they aren't a "scaled down" anything
Then why call them "1/10 scale" or even "Touring Cars" if your intent is that they are, really, neither?

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Old 10-07-2004, 12:20 PM   #592
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Default Mazda 6

Dale,

The mazda 6 is sold in sedan, hatchback and estate (station wagon) here in the UK.

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Old 10-07-2004, 12:24 PM   #593
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Default Letter to overseas competitors

Jorge,

Can you please e-mail a copy of the letter to overseas competitors to help us get through customs. My e-mail is [email protected].
I need the letter e-mailed because I leave for the USA today and it will be no good in the post to me.
At the very worst can you post a copy on here and then I can copy and paste it into word.

These sort of things should have been done months ago.

Regards
Darren
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Old 10-07-2004, 12:27 PM   #594
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Unhappy 12th scale body weight

bringing to the top again...

Randy....

Aside from battery and motor problems. Will the 12th scale weight limit be correct at 800grams and not 860grams which is the 6 cell weight from 6 years ago. I don't really want to put 2+ oz of lead on my car and then worry about it falling off.

Jeff



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Old 10-07-2004, 12:28 PM   #595
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here is my politically correct response!

An American designed and made it. Another American drives it and can beat the rest of the world with it! Lets make it Illigal and then he wont win.

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Old 10-07-2004, 12:46 PM   #596
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Hector - www.iespell.com download it an use it
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Old 10-07-2004, 12:49 PM   #597
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Default Re: IFMAR Body list

Quote:
Originally posted by daleepp
I am most relieved to see that common sence has "actually" prevailed in this IFMAR Worlds body dilemma. I was starting to wonder if it existed at all in the rc world. Forgive me for my sarcasm, but this went on far too long.

I want to make a few points to hopefully clarify in "some" minds a few body issues.
In Sept 2003 I read that Mazda Motorsports would probably be replacing the aging ProtegeES sometime in 2004 with the Mazda6 model in the SPEED WORLD CHALLENGE Touring Car Series. My first thought was that this body style would be attractive and with a very few changes would be a great RC body. I thought it would be a welcomed departure from the "Stratus/Alfa" rut that most racers were in. Because the real car is sold on every continent of the world and was going to be racing in the "WORLD" CHALLENGE touring car series, I felt it would be easily certified as ROAR, EFRA, FEMCA, FAMAR, BRCA and IFMAR legal. WOW.... Was I wrong!
The real Mazda6 has raced most of the season with Jeff Altenburg at the helm. The PROTOform version has been very successful and used by the winners of the ROAR ON-Road & Gas Nationals, Reedy Race of Champions (USA & Asia) etc.
Now it appears that the real source of the Mazda-trouble is surfacing. The full size Mazda6 that sells in the UK has a slightly different configuration in the truck lid area. In the UK it is a hatch-back so it has virtually no trucklid. To complicate matters further, there's a certain EFRA official in the UK who will look for "anything" to prevent PROTOform-style bodies from being used over there. He appears to want racing to be " a meeting of enthusiasts with electric powered rc operated model car replicas." Seriously, he doesn't "get it". He doesn't seem to understand that with the new age of hi-tech chassis with 6 turn motors and 3300 cells, a body is required that compliments the entire package and makes it driveable. I've attempted to find a balance between realism and functionality with all our bodies geared toward sanctioned racing. The PROTOform Mazda6 has not been "fudged" or distorted any more than other PROTOfrom body in ths category. (before you guys start screaming about the "Nemesis", it was NOT created for sanctioned racing events) Just wait, when we get to the Worlds in Florida, some pretty unbelievable rc body abberations will be brought in from Japan, and get this....they will all be officially.... "IFMAR APPROVED". Kinda just blows my mind after what I've been throught the last 5 weeks.
This particular individual and a few others in the UK are incredibly "subjective" when critiquing PROTOform bodies, but they do not give any clear objective guidelines for me or any other moldmaker to follow. They use the word "reasonable" and expect everyone to envision the same identicle thing. They keep me "guessing" as to what will be ok in their minds. Not fun, especially when you've spent a month on a new mold.
I have some ideas of how to bring some sensible guidlines to the "body approval - body inspection" process. I spent a few days preparing it a few years ago. I sent it to ROAR at the time and still have heard absolutely nothing. I've reminded them about it, but they still have no comment. I doubt they even took the time to read it.
I love this sport and want to see it grow and be healthy. I've tried to be sensitive to the "big picture" of what's good for the sport. New and interesting products are an integral part of what will keep it healthy. We need cool chassis, fast motors and sticky tires, and we also need to have CONTEMPORARY attractive bodies that work well. NASCAR has come up with a way of satisfying the fans as well as Ford, Chev and Dodge by purposely allowing "liberties" in the body shapes, to encourage driveability, and parity. They probably don't understand this in the UK, but it sure seems to work well for the most successful racing organization on the planet.

Thankyou for your support. I welcome your responces.

Sincerely - Dale Epp - PROTOform
Dale,

I agree fully with what you are saying and how nowadays these cars are not scaled replicas. I fully support that the Mazda 6 should be allowed as a bodyshell as at least it is based on an actual car.

However i think you have been a little harsh by making out that this is everyones opinion in the UK, maybe some complete moron who wont let the mazda be sanctioned over here but to say that we dont understand in the UK i feel is a little incorrect and perhaps you should explain what you mean as im sure it isnt meant as it sounds to me.

Ive always used protofrom bodyshells and will continue to as they are the best and im sorry that the egg heads who still think that our cars should be 'replicas' keep on banning your excellent bodyshells. Perhaps we should have a bodyshell rule for the whole RC racing world instead of differing ones for each country so that certain bodyshell manufactures end up be left out in the cold because a few of the 'powers that be' are living in the dark ages.


thanks
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Old 10-07-2004, 01:59 PM   #598
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It seems to me that their are too many bosses.

When a body is deemed legal by ROAR, or efra, or who ever- it should automatically be IFMAR legal.

I have known Dale and run for him for years. He is not trying to make cheater bodies that dont resemble real cars. They are infact smoothed here, or sharpened here to enhance the handeling charicterists. But take notice, there was ONLY 1 version of the original stratus! It worked well everywhere. Unlike the compeptition who had MANY versions of their "stratus looking" car. The point I am trying to make is that his bodies should be legal if not based on the sample he sends, but based on the track record of producing the BEST combination of functionality/accuracy not to mention quality- available.


I know they race the Diablo GTR, immagine the down force that pig would produce,,, why havnt we seen a legal Lambo???
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Old 10-07-2004, 02:21 PM   #599
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Keith, Diablo would be cool to see, but we'll never see a legal one for 'SEDAN' class?

Perhaps this sedan class needs complete think over far as bodies go. How cool would it be to see GTR, and GT bodies on the track? I think ROAR even has a class for it? GT-1? verses GT-2 for sedans?

It's nice to see Mazda 6 being legal, as it'll break up the boredum of 'vintage' Stratus class. Then here's a catch 22 though, if 6 body works well, is touring class going to turn into Mazda 6 class, instead of Stratus class?

1/8th scale gas on-road are high tech cars running with 70'/80's based Can-Am/Lola bodies. Hopefully touring class isn't headed in the same direction.
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Old 10-07-2004, 02:23 PM   #600
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I think we should all just run those Yokomo Euro Truck bodies and leave it at that!

Have to agree with Dale though, it's pretty tough when the only guidelines are somebody's definition of "reasonable."
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