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Old 09-09-2004, 11:59 PM   #286
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Default Re: MR P CICCARELLO, PARMA INTERNATIONAL

Quote:
Originally posted by IFMAR
With reference to the quoted email sent to you from IFMAR on March 29, 2004, please note that the statement made in this email is correct except for the fact that you forgot to mention that the Subject of the email was: 2004 IFMAR 1/10TH IC 200MM WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.

Obviously, therefore, this email in no way referred to the bodyshell list applicable for the 2004 IFMAR ISTC Electric On-road World Championship.

All IFMAR electric matters are dealt with by the IFMAR Electric Section Chairman, Mr. Heiner Martin.

If anyone wishes to look up any class of IFMAR World Championship Rules, at any time, please refer to http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ifmar

Regards
John Grant
President, IFMAR.
So then would the correct assumption be made that there are two different sets of rules for legalizing a body? One for On-road electric TC and the other for Nitro TC. It seems to me that if a body is legal for 200mm Nitro then that same body should be legal for electric just narrower.

Mr. Grant, have you been in contact with anyone from ROAR or just the people from the host track? Seems like Jorge and the Full Throttle crew are doing what ROAR should be.
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:23 AM   #287
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Default Re: MR P CICCARELLO, PARMA INTERNATIONAL

Quote:
Originally posted by IFMAR
With reference to the quoted email sent to you from IFMAR on March 29, 2004, please note that the statement made in this email is correct except for the fact that you forgot to mention that the Subject of the email was: 2004 IFMAR 1/10TH IC 200MM WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.

Obviously, therefore, this email in no way referred to the bodyshell list applicable for the 2004 IFMAR ISTC Electric On-road World Championship.

All IFMAR electric matters are dealt with by the IFMAR Electric Section Chairman, Mr. Heiner Martin.

If anyone wishes to look up any class of IFMAR World Championship Rules, at any time, please refer to http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ifmar

Regards
John Grant

President, IFMAR.
John: It seems as there are some missunderstanding here, somewhere. The problem here is that this only hits back on the racers, and is doing no good for the sport, or IFMAR, who you represent.
Be a good leader and solve this situation for the best of the racers, who will travel from all corners of the world to attend your race, rather than defend a rule and a procedure that seems to be missunderstood by most of the industries. You realy donīt think they are not interested in getting there bodies legal?
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Old 09-10-2004, 01:09 AM   #288
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People really do have a knack at complicating things.

Why not simply have a rule that says:

Any 4 door touring car in present production by any RC manufacturer, which respects the following measurements.......(fill in measurements here). The onus of proof of production lies with the entrant.

But that would be too simple and uncomplicated, wouldn't it.
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Old 09-10-2004, 01:24 AM   #289
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnbull
People really do have a knack at complicating things.

Why not simply have a rule that says:

Any 4 door touring car in present production by any RC manufacturer, which respects the following measurements.......(fill in measurements here). The onus of proof of production lies with the entrant.

But that would be too simple and uncomplicated, wouldn't it.
Probably. And Ifmar would loose the money for each body. And that seems to be more important than making good simple rules that works........
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Old 09-10-2004, 02:17 AM   #290
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of course its a money issue it would be to easy to have a template with the max dimensions for the body. Pluss if there is a
rule stating that the car has to be raced in a full scale form then pictures or brouchure that prove the cars legitamcy in full scale has to be provided by the racer.
why cant that be the case simple and effective.

But again Money is the real issue! Guess we have a Mini Ernie Eklstien on our hands (what ever the name of the owner of F-1 is)
Registration is $ 275.00 with the & 200.00 per body submitted gues the entrie fee will be raised. He'll get you somewhere else its a no win situation
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Last edited by speedxl; 09-10-2004 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 09-10-2004, 02:19 AM   #291
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I dont think Ifmar charges anything for the body approvals though... Its not an homolgation.
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Old 09-10-2004, 04:11 AM   #292
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Quote:
Extract from the IFMAR Electric Track Rules
6.7.9 One sample of a bodyshell, together with photographs
of the full-size car (showing at least 3
views: front, side and rear) on which the bodyshell
is based, must be sent to the IFMAR Electric Section
Chairman five months prior to the event
together with a homologation fee of US$ 200,-
When registered by IFMAR, the bodyshell will be
added to the register of bodyshells allowed for use
at IFMAR ISTC World Championship events and
the applicant will be notified.


Damn rules and regulations, and yes there is a fee.

Cheers
Peter
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Old 09-10-2004, 05:08 AM   #293
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Has the body and motor lists been posted anywhere yet? I'm not competing in the Worlds but still would like to see the list of allowed products.

I checked the IFMAR site and theres nothing there......
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:03 AM   #294
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Default Lets see what happens

Hey guys this is Jorge and I would like to see if we all can stop giving Ifmar a hard time. I don’t favor any one group of people. People who know me know that I stand neutral on all matters.
Guys we sometimes fail to realize that this is not a Roar race this is an IFMAR’s race and their rules are what we need to follow. We may not all like them but the rules are the rules. Lets see what IFMAR and Roar come up with first. We all know that they are all talking right now. So sit tight and lets see what happens.


Thanks Guys
Jorge
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:40 AM   #295
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Default Body Rules so Simple ?

Wow great to be in the company of people who can so easily solve a simple? problem.
Of course if it was so simple (there's that word again) why haven't some of you great thinkers suggested these changes to you local Governing bodies so they can be passed on as great advances in thinking and be adopted by the relevant bodies ?

Now should some reasons be given as to why the above recommendations are bull, (subtle I know).

When you have dimensional rules how many times have manufacturers manipulated a way around it, just a couple of examples as really the list is to long., lets see, there is the bubbles on the back of bumper bars so as the rear wing can be put further back, and of course there is the bubble in the roof to meet the minimum height, and there was even a time at an electric Off-road World Champs where a bodgey body was attempted, may as well have one final one, what about the Pro-10 World Champs where a new body was manufactured every night to achieve perfection., and I won't even bother mentioning wheel arches. Is this what we want, is that fair and equitable for everyone ? although I suppose it is, if you have the gun body.

Surely the system we have is not perfect by any means but simple solution I think not and people who think there is are simply not thinking hard enough.

Once again you have a situation brought about because some manufactuers, some racers and some organisers do not show enough interest or are to apathetic to be bothered about things all the time, they only show interest when something is going to affect them, and by this time invariably it is to late. They make no effort to understand rules or processes, again until it is too late.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and something can be done by IFMAR & ROAR to solve the problems quickly despite it ultimately not being, in the main, brought on by them it would seem.

The answer to the problem that would solve it for all concerned is to have Control bodies for an IFMAR World Championship on a similar basis to the tyres in Off-Road and On-Road maybe with say 2 options, of course how many people would agree with this. Now once you get this very low number in your mind, then think of the reason that is spinning in your heads as to why this is not acceptable and you have the reason as to why the problem invariably arises in the first place.

By the way the above paragraph does make sense you just need to think about it.
Simple I think not !
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:48 AM   #296
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Jorge. Greetings from Malta.

I am not for one moment disputing the fact that IFMAR as the international ruling body, should be responsible for making the rules, and also for seeing that these rules are applied correctly.

What I am saying is that in the case of bodyshells there seems to be so much unnecessary red tape. Whether that red tape is their by accident or by design is not up to me to decide.

Reading through these pages it appears that there is total confusion on a number of points, and this with less than a month to the worlds. We will not be at the Worlds this time because we simply can't afford to travel half way across the globe, much as we would have loved to be there, but I feel sorry for those racers who are trying to get themselves organised and can't because of a number of grey areas within the rules.

Good luck to everybody at the Worlds anyhow. Wish we were there!
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:54 AM   #297
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One other thing, did anyone ever think that a fee may be being charged in an "attempt" to only get serious body manufacturers to homolgate a body. After all one would assume that some of you guns might be a bit upset if some bloke made a few bodies in his garage that were a lot better than what you had and turned up with them. Just a thought !

Oh and for those whose brains are currently repeating "commercially available" what exactly does this mean.
Commercially where ?
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:21 AM   #298
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Simple?

Whomever you are, I think the pressing issue for the bodyshell situation, is that the racers were lead to believe that the ROAR list would be the bodies that could be used, now we are told that the list that was issued is far smaller, and most of the bodies on it, are currently not what is in favor ( have not practiced with them), or hard to get ( need to get new bodies painted).
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:34 AM   #299
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@Simple; "lets see, there is the bubbles on the back of bumper bars so as the rear wing can be put further back, and of course there is the bubble in the roof to meet the minimum height"
You know, even Ford made a bubble in order to be able to let Dan Gurney drive at Le Mans... Tall man! And yes, Porsche ones have two roofs. One original and one aerodynamic above it.
@Jorge: I see your point, but as we should expect a organisation like Roar and Ifmar to solve this stuff long time ago. This is not a new problem. People have asked for months and only get the answer that it will be avalible 2 months prior to the race. Realy donīt understand why IFMAR need 2 month to release a list.
The same thing have been the issue of the year for EFRA as well, and in no way, Martin Heiner, native from europe, who visited the European Championship and heard the discussion there can missed this. What we can expect, is that these organisations would be more Pro-active. I found it unacceptible that IFMAR, some weeks before deadline donīt react and ask Roar or the manufacturers, at leas the biggest ones if they are aware that they have to send in bodies, and ask why this is not already done. Than they could explain about promice here, missunderstanding there. The most important must be to solv a problem, and not defend why they have not done anything themself. The update on Ifmars web have been poor, and so far, I have not fuond any mailadress to Martin Heiner there. Anyone?

Last edited by Anders Myrberg; 09-10-2004 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:43 AM   #300
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Yes good point after all it will be great when they allow GT40 and Porsche Prototype bodies in a class for touring cars. Try Again !
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