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Old 04-18-2010, 01:39 AM   #1
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Default 2s lipo for 1/12 pan /wgt class?

anyone know of a company that makes a 2s pack, preferably hardcased, that will fit in the new standard 1-cell lipo/4-cell nimh slot, i have a team associated RC12R5?

if i remember correctly the original move to 4-cell ni-mh was for lower weight, so why didnt they try to go with 2s lipo since you can have lower weight with lipo and just use a lower capacity.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:42 AM   #2
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anyone know of a company that makes a 2s pack, preferably hardcased, that will fit in the new standard 1-cell lipo/4-cell nimh slot, i have a team associated RC12R5?

if i remember correctly the original move to 4-cell ni-mh was for lower weight, so why didnt they try to go with 2s lipo since you can have lower weight with lipo and just use a lower capacity.
I've seen people run 1/18th lipo's in their 12th scales and they usually last around 5 minutes.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:03 AM   #3
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The original move to 4cell was not a weight issue. It was done because the 1/12th cars were/are so damn fast. I've run 1/12 6cell in the day, and really now, If i want to go faster I could just go up on the motor. A 2 cell would be like putting a Jet turbine in a Ferrari F-40, isn't it enough already.

As for WGT, I ran 17.5 2 cell a year or so when they first came out and I admit it was a blast.....but they would be a handful for most of the newer drivers who are trying pan car for the first time. I imagine with the ESC's now a 2cell 10.5 WGT would need to file a flight plan.....a side not it was just those insane speeds 10+ years ago that killed the "straight axle" class.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:19 AM   #4
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Take a look at 18th scale lipos. They should have min. 2000mAh to last 8 min. With a 13.5 or 17.5 motor and a low power profile on your ESC you will be as fast as the modified guys with 1s Lipo (Just without the heat, generated through the low voltage and high current)

Edit: Another possibility (what I did): 2S A123 with 6V and 2300mAh
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:52 AM   #5
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The original move to 4cell was not a weight issue. It was done because the 1/12th cars were/are so damn fast. I've run 1/12 6cell in the day, and really now, If i want to go faster I could just go up on the motor.
That doesn't really make sense, you can as well go down on the motor to go slower with 2S LiPo. And you wouldn't have to worry about boosters. We are running 2S Lipos + 17.5T motors in WGT around here and I think it's just the right balance between speed and driveability. We are not marketing it as a completely beginners class, but it's not modified as well, it's closer to prostock, anybody with just 1-2 seasons experience can handle it quite well. Unfortunately a lot of new chassis designs are built purely for 1S LiPo, so a product that would have the dimensions of 1S Lipo and coltage of 7.4V would be a gamesaver for us. With 17.5T I've never used up more than 1900mAh over a 6 minute run (with all boosts completely maxed out on the speedo), so a battery that would hold 2200-2500mAh should be just enough.
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:19 AM   #6
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That doesn't really make sense, you can as well go down on the motor to go slower with 2S LiPo.
I don't know about that.
With a 2S 21.5 and modern esc, the wheels break traction for 8mins+ with F1 cars, and the motor is barely above room temp.

1S had nothing to do with weight, that is just a side benefit

And the slowest BL type motor available at most places IS 21.5
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Old 04-18-2010, 09:13 AM   #7
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I don't know about that.
With a 2S 21.5 and modern esc, the wheels break traction for 8mins+ with F1 cars, and the motor is barely above room temp.

1S had nothing to do with weight, that is just a side benefit

And the slowest BL type motor available at most places IS 21.5
+1 to that, it took me some time to understand that 2s was just too fast most of the time.

I have however driven a 1/12th car with a 23turn brushed and a 1/18 7.4V pack, and it was veeeery nice. It was a friend's car with a soft cased pack but the hardcased IB's for 1.18th ( something like 1800 mAh) would be my personal choice. The LRP hardcased 1800s have a weakness around the tube plugs if I remember well.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:09 AM   #8
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+1 to that, it took me some time to understand that 2s was just too fast most of the time.

I have however driven a 1/12th car with a 23turn brushed and a 1/18 7.4V pack, and it was veeeery nice. It was a friend's car with a soft cased pack but the hardcased IB's for 1.18th ( something like 1800 mAh) would be my personal choice. The LRP hardcased 1800s have a weakness around the tube plugs if I remember well.
It depends what size track it is. 1s lipo on a medium to large track (1/8 gas track) with 13.5t or even 10.5t or whatever sucks in 1/10 pancar. Sorry ....
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:33 AM   #9
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When Lipo's first came on the scene several racers tried 2s packs in their 1/12 cars. It was universally accepted that the 7.4 volt packs made the cars way too fast. The first attempt was to try 300 size motors in 1/12 cars. This required some adapters to fit the smaller motors. Several tried to get it going, but it never caught on.

Then SMC tried the idea of a single cell lipo in a 1/12 car with one of their sponsored drivers. They found that a 3.7v/13.5 turn car was not only just as fast as a 4.8v/17.5 car, but because it was lighter tire wear was drastically reduced. And remember, this was before the advanced timing speed controls. That combination caught on with everybody, and all the 1/12 chassis makers modified their cars for the 1s lipo. ANd remember that 90% of 1/12 racing is indoors.

A 1/10 pan car with 2s lipo would be a great class for outdoors, but I don't know who would run it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
The original move to 4cell was not a weight issue. It was done because the 1/12th cars were/are so damn fast. .....a side not it was just those insane speeds 10+ years ago that killed the "straight axle" class.
precisely
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:37 PM   #11
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A 1/10 pan car with 2s lipo would be a great class for outdoors, but I don't know who would run it.
Well, erm, in Europe they do run 1/10 pan with 2s outdoors even with 3.5's ...
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:10 PM   #12
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The move to 4-cell was to slow the cars down. Being too fast is not the only issue. Touring Cars are much faster than they were five years ago, even 17.5 v 27T.

Parts for 12th cars were designed for 6-cell 35T motors back in the 1970s. By and large, those designs haven't changed much at all, especially in the all-important power-train area - bearings, diffs, wheels and tyres. If you use 2S power, the tyres, bodies, bearings and diffs simply can't take that power without wearing out significantly faster. That would make 12th a more expensive class.

Touring Cars on the other hand were designed using parts from 10th Off-Road cars, and were capable of taking more weight and power than we gave them then. Development has only made them stronger and more able to deal with the power, as parts are not the same as they were in the 1990s when the class was started.

In the last five years, the weight of a 12th car has gone up by about 15% due mainly to the latest NiMh cells (from 50g a cell to 70g a cell in the last 4700 IB iteration) and BL motors and speedos (at least a 10% increase). My car of five years ago, with a 12T BR motor, would tip the scales under 800g out of the box. The last 4-cell car I drove was 850g with a lot of weight-saving, and most were in the range of 870 - 890g.

12th cars were, and always have been, designed to perform best at about 800g or less. Add 10% weight and they become poor handling, and work all their components very hard. With LiPo, we are back to the original design weights or less, and the cars handle better, are easier to drive, and have manageable power for their components.

WGT cars are better able to handle that power, as they have way too much tyre for their weight. Nonetheless, 2S power will work bearings and diffs very hard, leading to higher maintenance and early failures.

The guys running 2S WGT in Europe mostly race outdoors on large tracks with relatively little traction compared to carpet, so they can get away with it.

2S for 12th and WGT on their natural surface (carpet) is a poor solution. To take the analogy above a little further, it would be like putting a V10 diesel engine in that Ferrari F-40. Huge power, huge torque, very fast, but it would eat tyres, gearboxes and driveshafts, and would handle like a ship in a storm.

2S is best avoided for pan cars - if you want power add more motor. 12th is the one class where driving talent is the ONLY thing you need to win. I;ve been lucky enough to race David Spashett at many events, including Club races. I would run 10T BR, he would run 19T - and he still beat my by 10 to 15% on time!! Who needs more power when the cheapest performance improvement is the one that costs least - learning to drive better!
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post

A 1/10 pan car with 2s lipo would be a great class for outdoors, but I don't know who would run it.
1/10 pan car class with spec'd 17.5 novak motors and the 2S 2400mAH orion lipo is ran up in london ontario at a carpet indoor track called lou's speedway. this class is called SCAR (spec canadian auto racing). watching these cars run with the new advance timming esc's is like watching a blur (weight limit is 1000 grams)

go to londonrc.com and look under the SCAR racing class forum for the 2010 rules if your interested (cant post links yet, not enough posts lol)
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:58 PM   #14
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SCAR threads
http://forums.londonrc.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:32 PM   #15
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It depends what size track it is. 1s lipo on a medium to large track (1/8 gas track) with 13.5t or even 10.5t or whatever sucks in 1/10 pancar. Sorry ....
+1.
I would not even consider running anything less than 8.5 in my wide pan outdoors. These cars are meant to be powerfull as it adds to the fun and driver skill, and now that the summers coming I'm gonna be eating TC's for breakfast.

2s in a 12th would be overkill bigtime, even on smooth carpet. I don't agree with running 10th pans on 1s either. I think a car can also be too light.
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