The Official ROAR Festivus Thread
03-19-2010, 10:41 AM
#181
It’s a slow day at work so I’ve been catching up on my reading.
To go off of what Mike said I have a crazy idea…maybe dumb idea but…
Why not have ROAR sponsor races like the IIC and Snowbirds? I see an arrangement where they work with the promoters and provide administrative/technical support. God knows the promoters need all the help they can get to pull off the races. In return ROAR could/should set up a ROAR booth so they can meet and greet racers…many of the racers that aren’t coming to their events. Have a sign up booth…generate buzz about ROAR races. Maybe even convince the promoters to run ROAR rules.
It seems that ROAR is having a hard time attracting racers to their events. This may be a way to cross-promote. Also like someone else posted…make the ROAR Nationals an EVENT…same place…same hotel…same time of year. All of the big races do that why not ROAR?
Just my $0.02….back to work.
To go off of what Mike said I have a crazy idea…maybe dumb idea but…
Why not have ROAR sponsor races like the IIC and Snowbirds? I see an arrangement where they work with the promoters and provide administrative/technical support. God knows the promoters need all the help they can get to pull off the races. In return ROAR could/should set up a ROAR booth so they can meet and greet racers…many of the racers that aren’t coming to their events. Have a sign up booth…generate buzz about ROAR races. Maybe even convince the promoters to run ROAR rules.
It seems that ROAR is having a hard time attracting racers to their events. This may be a way to cross-promote. Also like someone else posted…make the ROAR Nationals an EVENT…same place…same hotel…same time of year. All of the big races do that why not ROAR?
Just my $0.02….back to work.
They have to join ROAR to race! Seriously, look at most threads, someone will say what do I get for joining ROAR or they'll say they're going to another race because there's no membership fee. All the other complaints stem from there.
And work? On a Friday? What's wrong with you???
03-19-2010, 11:08 AM
#182
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
ROAR is only a small part of the problem. The racers are a big part of the problem.
I do but I substitute everyone else's name instead....
ROAR is only a small part of the problem. The racers are a big part of the problem.
I do but I substitute everyone else's name instead....
03-19-2010, 11:09 AM
#183
I've been racing for many years.Saying some of thing things I've read on this page. Only once or twice in the late 80's have I attended a National event where ,there were the manufacturers holding seminars. As for a ROAR booth I did that for years at our state races- don't any more.I don't think you'll see the big races going with ROAR.Maybe the manufacturers could talk with the big race promoters about going with ROAR since they hold the purse strings.I would not like to be the ROAR person in the booth at one of these big races that does not support ROAR when a problem comes up.Just look at the last race ROAR got blamed for something and it was not a ROAR race.
ROAR has lost it base- the club level racing and affiliation.Here in florida there were clubs everywhere. Now go to the ROAR site and check on the clubs.What incentives do clubs or hobbyshops have beside the insurance angle?Yes there are rules but no guidence.Region directors most of the time are not like they were years ago.What does a Region director do now a days. Are there any articles about the racing in there area?They used to have to do articles every two months.When they go to races do they promote ROAR?Have an information area? Or do they just go there to race and have fun?
ROAR has lost it base- the club level racing and affiliation.Here in florida there were clubs everywhere. Now go to the ROAR site and check on the clubs.What incentives do clubs or hobbyshops have beside the insurance angle?Yes there are rules but no guidence.Region directors most of the time are not like they were years ago.What does a Region director do now a days. Are there any articles about the racing in there area?They used to have to do articles every two months.When they go to races do they promote ROAR?Have an information area? Or do they just go there to race and have fun?
I think that they need to regain their footing somehow. Maybe it's getting in with big race promoters...maybe not. But if the big races backed ROAR and vice versa I think that would definitely help strengthen their position in the racing community. But they'd have to provide incentive for Scotty or whoever to do so. The IIC, Snowbirds, Novak, etc. don't need ROAR...ROAR needs them and their non ROAR racers. But at the same time we need ROAR for setting basic guidelines for racing.
We are all apart of the problem and are all apart of the solution. Manufactures/sponsors have influence on big race promoters...race promoters have influence on racers...ROAR influences the rules at large events and at the club level...and these rules help local tracks run successful race programs...and all of the above things drive our sport/hobby. We're all playing in the same game here. I'd just like to see ROAR, or whoever, be the foundation...not the defacto foundation, but the actual agreed upon ruling organization for RC racing in US....Umm which I think they're supposed to be
03-19-2010, 11:12 AM
#184
It won't work. Why? What is the single biggest reason most people don't want to go to a ROAR Race?
They have to join ROAR to race! Seriously, look at most threads, someone will say what do I get for joining ROAR or they'll say they're going to another race because there's no membership fee. All the other complaints stem from there.
And work? On a Friday? What's wrong with you???
They have to join ROAR to race! Seriously, look at most threads, someone will say what do I get for joining ROAR or they'll say they're going to another race because there's no membership fee. All the other complaints stem from there.
And work? On a Friday? What's wrong with you???
I know I'm dreaming a bit...but what else am I suppose to do on a slow sunny 65 degree Friday.
03-19-2010, 11:14 AM
#185
Has ROAR ever asked the sponsored racers to hold a clinic on topics to help educated racers: sedan tuning, improving your driving ect...... at a ROAR event to help get more people involved. If the event is held in a hotel why doesn't some from industry setup a track in another room for locals to come and check out racing and try racing.
Right now ROAR just runs a few events geared for the top drivers in the world. They need to decide if they want to cater to this very small crowd or try and expand to involve more people that run RC.
Evey ROAR race also has to be used to promote the hobby, which can happen if ROAR gets help from the Pro drivers and manufactures.
)
03-19-2010, 11:17 AM
#186
Seems the one constant in RC......people always complaining about ROAR....
At least I know much hasn't changed since coming back from my vacation:P
Later EddieO
At least I know much hasn't changed since coming back from my vacation:P
Later EddieO
03-19-2010, 11:20 AM
#187
03-19-2010, 11:21 AM
#188
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Now pat attention everyone and think about this...
Every non-ROAR "big" race/event has something in common.... What do you think it is... OK I'll tell ya...
They all use ROAR rules or ROAR approved products.... And what credit does ROAR get? Zippy... Does any of these events pay to use ROAR's name/etc?
Not that I have seen, And that goes for the venders too.. I really like one of the vendors who use thye term" Meets ROARs standards"
I starting to get ina pissy mode today.....
Every non-ROAR "big" race/event has something in common.... What do you think it is... OK I'll tell ya...
They all use ROAR rules or ROAR approved products.... And what credit does ROAR get? Zippy... Does any of these events pay to use ROAR's name/etc?
Not that I have seen, And that goes for the venders too.. I really like one of the vendors who use thye term" Meets ROARs standards"
I starting to get ina pissy mode today.....
03-19-2010, 11:27 AM
#189
Now pat attention everyone and think about this...
Every non-ROAR "big" race/event has something in common.... What do you think it is... OK I'll tell ya...
They all use ROAR rules or ROAR approved products.... And what credit does ROAR get? Zippy... Does any of these events pay to use ROAR's name/etc?
Not that I have seen, And that goes for the venders too.. I really like one of the vendors who use thye term" Meets ROARs standards"
I starting to get ina pissy mode today.....
Every non-ROAR "big" race/event has something in common.... What do you think it is... OK I'll tell ya...
They all use ROAR rules or ROAR approved products.... And what credit does ROAR get? Zippy... Does any of these events pay to use ROAR's name/etc?
Not that I have seen, And that goes for the venders too.. I really like one of the vendors who use thye term" Meets ROARs standards"
I starting to get ina pissy mode today.....
No need to get pissy cuz you're on the right track
I'm with you on this one. Everyone's in this together.
03-19-2010, 11:36 AM
#190
To answer from one of the first pages, I do indeed have a dog in this hunt. I race electric on road. I've managed an electric on road sponsored team for years as a part of my job. I also serve tracks all around the country as a part of that job. A few years ago I was tapped by Dawn to help with the upcoming Lipo/Brushless rules, and shortly thereafter was drafted into the EXCOM (but don't tell her I said it that way 
).
I've read through everything here, and I agree with Rich - good info from good people with valid opinions and suggestions.
So lets turn a page - we've had our time to identify and discuss all the problems. In a nutshell:
I think we all agree that on road electric is hurting bad because:
1) The "beginner class" is almost nonexistent - a newbie walks up to a track and sees 17.5 touring and asks the guy next to him: "Wow these pro guys are really fast - what's the entry level class look like?" The response is "this IS the entry level class..."
2) Mod has always been mod, but right now, 17.5 and 13.5 are pretty much mod too.
3) Because of the above, there is little or no new blood coming in, and lots of folks giving up and heading out.
Its also clear that the ROAR membership wants a voice in rule changes/direction/discussions. I am 100000% onboard with that, and voice it often in ROAR meetings. I pushed hard for the ROAR forum board on the website specifically for that purpose. I also believe ROAR needs a direct contact line to all its affiliate track owners/race directors to get a complete feel for what kind of racing is happening, what's hot and growing, and what's unpopular and dying.
I know a common criticism is we in the EXCOM make sweeping decisions entirely from a vacuum with no other input. That couldn't be farther from the truth, as dozens and perhaps hundreds of industry folks, racers, and track owners are consulted or are directly involved in our decisions. BUT we can, and must do better to get a more complete pulse on an already dynamic industry that's shifting faster than anyone or any organization can truly keep pace with.
It seems to be the consensus that "change now" is at least slightly better than "a possibly more complete solution later". I'm in the RC racing electronics business, (where anything in my catalog could be obsolete tomorrow) so I tend to agree with that. Sometimes things do change so crazy fast that the "damned if you do's" outweigh the "damned if you don'ts"
So again - those are the problems, so now lets solve them.
#1 - Change immediately to 1s lipo power for all on road classes. 17.5 is 17.5 again, 13.5 is 13.5 again, and mod - well, is still mod. Light the candle and hang on.
#2 - Change 17.5 immediately to a spec ESC and sealed can motor. Zero deg timing, zero profiles, zero update capability, and only brake/drag brake settings. The mfrs WILL make them, and contrary to anything else they won't be hard to check in tech. Make sure it's slow enough that the "the people who shouldn't be in the entry level class" won't want to run it. Leave 13.5 as a "comfort zone" or second class, and leave mod alone.
#3 - Change the entire motor build style of the "ROAR limited power" classes. Brand new motor intolerant of advance (equalizes speedo software), more durable (less chance of blowing up), smaller, lighter, and less expensive. and leave mod alone.
Each of these has pros and cons, but they all have been discussed within EXCOM as possible solutions during the last 6 months.
If one of the above three doesn't work for you, then lets hear your solution please and we'll work towards a resolution!
).I've read through everything here, and I agree with Rich - good info from good people with valid opinions and suggestions.
So lets turn a page - we've had our time to identify and discuss all the problems. In a nutshell:
I think we all agree that on road electric is hurting bad because:
1) The "beginner class" is almost nonexistent - a newbie walks up to a track and sees 17.5 touring and asks the guy next to him: "Wow these pro guys are really fast - what's the entry level class look like?" The response is "this IS the entry level class..."
2) Mod has always been mod, but right now, 17.5 and 13.5 are pretty much mod too.
3) Because of the above, there is little or no new blood coming in, and lots of folks giving up and heading out.
Its also clear that the ROAR membership wants a voice in rule changes/direction/discussions. I am 100000% onboard with that, and voice it often in ROAR meetings. I pushed hard for the ROAR forum board on the website specifically for that purpose. I also believe ROAR needs a direct contact line to all its affiliate track owners/race directors to get a complete feel for what kind of racing is happening, what's hot and growing, and what's unpopular and dying.
I know a common criticism is we in the EXCOM make sweeping decisions entirely from a vacuum with no other input. That couldn't be farther from the truth, as dozens and perhaps hundreds of industry folks, racers, and track owners are consulted or are directly involved in our decisions. BUT we can, and must do better to get a more complete pulse on an already dynamic industry that's shifting faster than anyone or any organization can truly keep pace with.
It seems to be the consensus that "change now" is at least slightly better than "a possibly more complete solution later". I'm in the RC racing electronics business, (where anything in my catalog could be obsolete tomorrow) so I tend to agree with that. Sometimes things do change so crazy fast that the "damned if you do's" outweigh the "damned if you don'ts"
So again - those are the problems, so now lets solve them.
#1 - Change immediately to 1s lipo power for all on road classes. 17.5 is 17.5 again, 13.5 is 13.5 again, and mod - well, is still mod. Light the candle and hang on.
#2 - Change 17.5 immediately to a spec ESC and sealed can motor. Zero deg timing, zero profiles, zero update capability, and only brake/drag brake settings. The mfrs WILL make them, and contrary to anything else they won't be hard to check in tech. Make sure it's slow enough that the "the people who shouldn't be in the entry level class" won't want to run it. Leave 13.5 as a "comfort zone" or second class, and leave mod alone.
#3 - Change the entire motor build style of the "ROAR limited power" classes. Brand new motor intolerant of advance (equalizes speedo software), more durable (less chance of blowing up), smaller, lighter, and less expensive. and leave mod alone.
Each of these has pros and cons, but they all have been discussed within EXCOM as possible solutions during the last 6 months.
If one of the above three doesn't work for you, then lets hear your solution please and we'll work towards a resolution!
03-19-2010, 11:43 AM
#191
As a Roar Track member, I would like to see ROAR put advertisements in full-size car racing magazines, that would be "promoting r/c racing" to me. A nice decent ad promoting ROAR member tracks would be fantastic. That would get new racers into the hobby, and support local tracks that are ROAR members and encourage more tracks to become ROAR members for the advertising.
Here is a good list:
http://www.mondotimes.com/2/topics/5/sports/103
Don't forget "Off-Road" and "4-Wheel & Off-Road" magazines too.
Here is a good list:
http://www.mondotimes.com/2/topics/5/sports/103
Don't forget "Off-Road" and "4-Wheel & Off-Road" magazines too.
03-19-2010, 11:46 AM
#192
BullFrog, Rick Hohwart, Mike Blackstock and others.
I really agree with the ideas and comments put forth. I'm hearing "we need change".
Well, making that change will take a massive move in our collective/current thought process not to mention the time/money and energy required --
My vision, I have been seriously thinking about, is a National Ranking System. (this is NOT a current ROAR AGENDA, my personal feelings, only) For an example, Look at this site: http://www.usara.com/current_rankings.aspx.
The National ranking would allow all elements of RC racing to be involved. Including the "local" races. The key elements are:
Participants (Drivers/mechanics)
Event Promoters
Track/Facility Owners
Product Distributers
Manufactures
We, I mean all of the interested parties listed above, need to look toward building a mechanism that adds value to the "events/racing" I see this done by by a National ranking system. There are multiple ways to integrate a program of this nature - it is a large step, but, in my mind, the need step to move us out of our current rut.
I really agree with the ideas and comments put forth. I'm hearing "we need change".
Well, making that change will take a massive move in our collective/current thought process not to mention the time/money and energy required --
My vision, I have been seriously thinking about, is a National Ranking System. (this is NOT a current ROAR AGENDA, my personal feelings, only) For an example, Look at this site: http://www.usara.com/current_rankings.aspx.
The National ranking would allow all elements of RC racing to be involved. Including the "local" races. The key elements are:
Participants (Drivers/mechanics)
Event Promoters
Track/Facility Owners
Product Distributers
Manufactures
We, I mean all of the interested parties listed above, need to look toward building a mechanism that adds value to the "events/racing" I see this done by by a National ranking system. There are multiple ways to integrate a program of this nature - it is a large step, but, in my mind, the need step to move us out of our current rut.
I would be up for helping with something like this. I have an intermediate knowledge of MS Excel and once such a structure was in place (whether its 21.5/17.5/Open or Rookie/Sportsman/Expert/Pro as I outlined a number of pages ago) could put it together in a spreadsheet so that people could have something to see where they stood
03-19-2010, 11:46 AM
#193
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (55)
BullFrog, Rick Hohwart, Mike Blackstock and others.
I really agree with the ideas and comments put forth. I'm hearing "we need change".
Well, making that change will take a massive move in our collective/current thought process not to mention the time/money and energy required --
My vision, I have been seriously thinking about, is a National Ranking System. (this is NOT a current ROAR AGENDA, my personal feelings, only) For an example, Look at this site: http://www.usara.com/current_rankings.aspx.
The National ranking would allow all elements of RC racing to be involved. Including the "local" races. The key elements are:
Participants (Drivers/mechanics)
Event Promoters
Track/Facility Owners
Product Distributers
Manufactures
We, I mean all of the interested parties listed above, need to look toward building a mechanism that adds value to the "events/racing" I see this done by by a National ranking system. There are multiple ways to integrate a program of this nature - it is a large step, but, in my mind, the need step to move us out of our current rut.
I really agree with the ideas and comments put forth. I'm hearing "we need change".
Well, making that change will take a massive move in our collective/current thought process not to mention the time/money and energy required --
My vision, I have been seriously thinking about, is a National Ranking System. (this is NOT a current ROAR AGENDA, my personal feelings, only) For an example, Look at this site: http://www.usara.com/current_rankings.aspx.
The National ranking would allow all elements of RC racing to be involved. Including the "local" races. The key elements are:
Participants (Drivers/mechanics)
Event Promoters
Track/Facility Owners
Product Distributers
Manufactures
We, I mean all of the interested parties listed above, need to look toward building a mechanism that adds value to the "events/racing" I see this done by by a National ranking system. There are multiple ways to integrate a program of this nature - it is a large step, but, in my mind, the need step to move us out of our current rut.
1. Handicapped races. Once you have a ranking, you could establish handicaps. This would have a major impact on the traditional format of racing (quals, mains, etc) as exist today. However, with handicaps, you've made the competitive pool much larger, so no need for a dozen 4 car classes.
2. In order to have a handicap, you need to be a registered ROAR member
. Answers the question of "what to I get for my ROAR money?"OK, that's enough crazy ideas for Friday.
Cheers,
Mitch
03-19-2010, 11:51 AM
#194
Tech Master
As a Roar Track member, I would like to see ROAR put advertisements in full-size car racing magazines, that would be "promoting r/c racing" to me. A nice decent ad promoting ROAR member tracks would be fantastic. That would get new racers into the hobby, and support local tracks that are ROAR members and encourage more tracks to become ROAR members for the advertising.
Here is a good list:
http://www.mondotimes.com/2/topics/5/sports/103
Don't forget "Off-Road" and "4-Wheel & Off-Road" magazines too.
Here is a good list:
http://www.mondotimes.com/2/topics/5/sports/103
Don't forget "Off-Road" and "4-Wheel & Off-Road" magazines too.
Welcome Shawn. Glad to see you here. As a note, I have completely changed my position on the forums. I, now, 100000% agree with you - the forums are a great way to reach-out to the membership. The days of "smoke filled rooms" are over.
Have to say guys - keep the ideas flowing. This exchange is getting better and healthier by the post.
03-19-2010, 11:58 AM
#195
Hey Rich, apparently you and I missed out on the "smoke filled room" days of ROAR - I think someone owes us some cigars!