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Old 03-18-2010, 10:57 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Speed controls do not need to be hard to tech; I'm not sure just how this idea got started in the racing community.

We have been designing racing electronics for almost 32 years and we have never heard of a racer, or team driver, hacking into the micro code to change the controller's features. The solution to the speed control problem is actually very simple.

All ESC Manufacturers (who want to participate in this entry-level/spec segment) will offer a speed control with the following characteristics:

~ Stand-alone, identifiable brand
~ No external PC programming option
~ No built-in timing/boost
~ "Street Price" less than 100.00

These manufacturers will agree---and be held accountable---for the escs they manufacture for this spec segment. This is simple and doable by all mfgs within a few months. ESC designers can compete on low price and offering other options/features to make the best, low-cost controller possible for spec customer.
Since we are looking to minimize cost the $100 speedo is a great idea but can we also have the speedos that we already own programmed by the manufacturer and have a password so the profile can not be changed? This would save guys a lot of money, rather than having to buy more speedos. The way that it could be teched is there would be a different color light or something.

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not to attack you personally for the sake of it, but soley for use as a constructive example...

you are lobbying for two classes at a national event that are separated by .2/lap. to me, in a time where competition is light, that just seems completey selfish, and not for the good of the collective group. if you were to take yourself out of the equation, would you find a ton of logical arguments to support offering two classes differing by .2/lap? if you're running 13.5 why not just register for mod, and use your 13.5?

this example points out that a lot of the issues we're seeing are simply because people won't take a step back to let the industry take a step (or even two) forward. we're in a turbulent period of growth and adjustment. some flexibility would be helpful until we work it out. yet, most would rather retreat to the sidelines until someone other than themselves comes up with a solution that is deemed acceptable to them. (or worse, hang out on the field and taunt their own team).

i'm frequently reminded of a quote that gmail sends me just about once a week... it is as follows, "tough times never last, but tough people do". there is no doubt to me that the on-road crowd is in desperate need of some toughness right now.
It cracks me up that guys less than 6 months ago guys would not run mod because it was too fast or they were not good enough and now they will run 13.5 with all the boost and they can drive that? The laptimes are only .2 off at best.

At least Larry and Schreff saw the light and decided to start running mod. What about all of you other guys?

17.5 no boost and mod/open, thats all there needs to be with the speedo password reprogram system. Then no one needs to buy new motors, speedos or what ever. Use the same stuff, Race your 13.5, 10.5 with boost or a mod motor in mod/open and get your speedo reprogramed to run 17.5 if thats your skill level.
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:26 AM   #107
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Since we are looking to minimize cost the $100 speedo is a great idea but can we also have the speedos that we already own programmed by the manufacturer and have a password so the profile can not be changed? This would save guys a lot of money, rather than having to buy more speedos. The way that it could be teched is there would be a different color light or something.
Tekin basically volunteered to do this for the USVTA crowd but got shot down because it was deemed to be too much work for Tech to require people to turn on their ESC and listen for a stock specific chime at startup.

I'm sure if we asked nicely they would be willing to do so again.
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:31 AM   #108
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Stock is suppose to be the beginner class, isn't it ?


Nobody here even the Ex-con has mentioned the fix for the real problem .....


Which is ....


FIX MOD SO THE FAST GUYS MOVE UP & LET BEGGINNERS HAVE FUN


Roar is going at it all backwards and will fail.....


Fix the real problem & stock will take care of it self......
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #109
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You make it seem like fixing mod is the "cure all magic elixir" to all of our problems...how would you propose it be done my friend? Or are you simply going to spout off with no legitimate potential solution...

I think it would be important to have a level where teh new to RC racing crop can cut their teeth...I think having a rookie class would be good...give them someplace where they can run their RTRs and learn their way up. once they get to sportsman then you can have stock and modified at say the sportsman level (how to codify what stock and modified I am working out in my head in addition to this posting) and then have just modified at the expert level and beyond. Not everyone is going to learn to swim simply by throwing them in the deep end and just telling them to thrash around until they "get it".
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:53 AM   #110
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Yes Yes Yes 100% agreement, we need to use website forums far more than this gossip channel. ROAR please note..........

Jacko
Agreed on OUR (I mean all of ours, which is ROAR) website. It is moving forward.

I have to say, this thread right now, is generating some very good info and ideas. I like the exchange that is happening right now. Exchanges like this are paid attention to and read to gain insight and experiences of others. Very strong.

Hey Paul C. See ya in Lincoln, soon
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:57 AM   #111
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first off, last i checked roar doesn't own any of my local tracks, if the problem is there is no where for the beginner to race it would seem that would be up to my local tracks to figure out a class, I know the local off road track runs 13.5 buggy and calls it the stock class, hardly a place for beginners to be starting out.

we should/need to stop referring to any class as the "STOCK" class.

if we need a sportsman class at big races then create one.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:03 PM   #112
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Track design .
Fix stock with all the rules you can...
Mod is dead and as long as it is dead , Sedan racing will never grow again....



How to fix mod ?

promotion
awards
prizes

Ps Dawn thinks this is a dumb idea...

Sad .....
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:12 PM   #113
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Track design .
Fix stock with all the rules you can...
Mod is dead and as long as it is dead , Sedan racing will never grow again....



How to fix mod ?

promotion
awards
prizes

Ps Dawn thinks this is a dumb idea...

Sad .....


Promotion, awards and prizes are good in part but that is something that is needed across the board. Unless there is some sort of system in place (similar to the Nationwide Tour and its "performance promotion or battlefield promotion" concept), you can do promotion awards and prizes out until your passed out on the floor and blue in the face but it isnt going to completely take care of the lack of people moving up.

Also...you think that maybe Dawn doesnt give your ideas much credence because almost all your energy is spent denigrating ROAR and offering very few concrete solutions or a plan to implement what few concrete solutions you come up with?
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:19 PM   #114
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Hey Paul C. See ya in Lincoln, soon
Didn't I warn you about this in the nitro forum?
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:19 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by seaball View Post
we're in a turbulent period of growth and adjustment. some flexibility would be helpful until we work it out. yet, most would rather retreat to the sidelines until someone other than themselves comes up with a solution that is deemed acceptable to them. (or worse, hang out on the field and taunt their own team).
This is simply Gospel. Offer solutions, not gripes...


Has ROAR considered making different rewards for drivers' ability levels instead of fooling with classes and tech and whether or not a driver qualifies for "stock" or "sportsman"? Why not just have the unsponsored "sportsmen" run with the pros in stock and have a separate, very lucrative award and recognition for the highest finishing "sportsman"?

Certainly lower the speeds for stock, but without competition racing doesn't exist...

-Sean
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:22 PM   #116
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Trackdesign

The system ?

It been working just find for all the years in off-road....




In on-road nobody really cares who wins mod on-road of late , that's the real problem ...

good drivers have no place to win....

beginner class suffers.





Fix Mod and the stock will fix itself.
The Mod on-road class needs to be restored to it formal gory,
like it was years ago , when on-road was very popular ....


Lack of prestige is all that has changed in these years and needs to be address...


BDW , For years Roar has treated me as you say ....
Can you blame ?
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:25 PM   #117
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I will agree with you on your point that mod does need more prestige WC...
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:33 PM   #118
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Thank You Track
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:44 PM   #119
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No problem...Mod does need to really be worth moving up to, but I still think that there ought to be a "ladder" of sorts. on the open letter discussion I had something like that. Again, you cant just throw people into the deep end to help them learn how to swim. There needs to be a way to get them there...and then of course your idea of promotion and prizes and what not for keeping them there
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:46 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Trackdesign

The system ?

It been working just find for all the years in off-road....




In on-road nobody really cares who wins mod on-road of late , that's the real problem ...

good drivers have no place to win....

beginner class suffers...

BDW can you blame me , Roar reps for years have been treating me as you say....





Fix Mod and the stock will fix itself.
The Mod on-road class needs to be restored to it formal gory,
like it was years ago , when on-road was very popular ....


Lack of prestige is all that has changed in these years and needs to be address...


BDW , For years Roar has treated me as you say ....
Can you blame ?
Really....off-road is great we get it. Thatís why the same guys that have been racing stock in off-road races for the past 10 years are still racing stock....yep that system is working great. People like what they like and just like you obviously like to run mod some people donít....accept this fact and move on.

Prestige...is all about perception they go hand and hand. I could care less who won Mod off-road anything as Iím sure many on-road racers share the same opinion. So to me any off-road class victory holds no prestige to me. You obviously have something for off-road we all get it....you beat off to it on so many threads its ridiculous. If mod is the answer then there wouldnít be a stock class.....period....but there is so think about that. People want it and enjoy it just like some people like mod.


ROAR has many mountains to climb.....and they are getting directions for too many people before the road is even finished yet. Good luck to all of them that have taken the time to help work out these issues.


For another take on this why not do away with mod at Carpet races all together here in the US? Itís the lowest attended class of all the classes at the Nationals and larger races. Why not make the few join the many and race 13.5 instead of making the many go up and join the few. I really fail to see the logic behind this thought process of making people run mod just so there is a mod class. Yes Mod is run all around the world we all know this....but for whatever reason itís not working here in America. How do you fix what is broken.....???
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