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Old 03-25-2010, 12:09 PM   #271
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rob's right...look at the almost meteoric difference in electric onroad between this year and last year. LiPo, Turbo ESCs to name the first two I can think of off the top of my head. What kind of technological changes have their been in nitro sedan and prototype racing? Frankly...you could probably count them on one hand. People dont feel like they have to work as hard to get involved with Nitro onroad as they do electric (of course the fact that its a worlds qualifier doesnt hurt either). I mean if you look at the Nitro sections, do you see fifty bajillion threads being started about the latest technology and how ROAR needs to have a rule for it in 1 week or we wont support them? No you dont.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:09 PM   #272
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i guess my thinking really is that just because a person has the money to go out and buy mod motor and badboy speedie and top o the line car, does not mean they should be in the mod class with guys that have been racing for many years. i can honestly say my car is rarely to never broken by me, it is usually cause by a guy racing a class way too fast for the experience level he is currently at. that is my basis behind amateur and expert classifications. i would bet that i could drop in a 17.5 and turn more consistent and likely faster times in my 12th scale than most dudes that are running 13.5 or even a 8.5. why? because i have been racing since i was 16 with countless hours of practice and tuning. hell, even BMX has a graduated ranking system for advancement! why would you want the frustration and embarassment of running with guys that are gonna lap you like 6-10 times in a 8 minute period? there is no fun in that for the newer guys. that being said, if you are racing amateur or sportsman or whatever you call it, and you post say, 5 A main wins in a season, then you MUST advance now, not next season, this could also be at the discretion of the track director....sandbagging in a class is a thing to be discouraged as well, getting the newbies a win once in a while fosters intrest to improve.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:17 PM   #273
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i guess my thinking really is that just because a person has the money to go out and buy mod motor and badboy speedie and top o the line car, does not mean they should be in the mod class with guys that have been racing for many years. i can honestly say my car is rarely to never broken by me, it is usually cause by a guy racing a class way too fast for the experience level he is currently at. that is my basis behind amateur and expert classifications. i would bet that i could drop in a 17.5 and turn more consistent and likely faster times in my 12th scale than most dudes that are running 13.5 or even a 8.5. why? because i have been racing since i was 16 with countless hours of practice and tuning. hell, even BMX has a graduated ranking system for advancement! why would you want the frustration and embarassment of running with guys that are gonna lap you like 6-10 times in a 8 minute period? there is no fun in that for the newer guys. that being said, if you are racing amateur or sportsman or whatever you call it, and you post say, 5 A main wins in a season, then you MUST advance now, not next season, this could also be at the discretion of the track director....sandbagging in a class is a thing to be discouraged as well, getting the newbies a win once in a while fosters intrest to improve.
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:50 PM   #274
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Honestly, I do not currently see the need for having to qualify to attend a national event. The reason is simple. We don't have enough racers attending the races to even sell them out.

It may be an option in the gas off-road classes, perhaps even on-road. But in Electric classes, I haven't seen a full sold out event, not accepting additional entries in years.

So if we ever get to that point, I think it should be considered, but for now, let the average joe go muck it up in Mod if he wants to. At least he can go home and say he was in the A Main
2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 ROAR Carpet Nats we're all sold out. Max is 25 heats, that works out to 250 entries for this event.
2006 - 285 entries
2007 - 275 entries
2008 - 300 entries
2009 - 285 entries

Electric Off Road has been sold out the last couple of years with nearly 300 or more entries in '08 @ Hot Rod Hobbies and '09 at Hobby Plex.

The only ROAR Electric National event that hasn't had a sale out in many years is paved on road.4

Qualifying for nationals is a great idea it can and should work with the right system. Yes there are other sanctioning bodies in other genres of racing that have ranking systems and it's time for RC and ROAR as well. Just have to figure out how to make a fair points system work and how to implement it.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:11 PM   #275
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you know, if your gonna start throwing out FACTS, then this thread doesn't have a chance.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:32 PM   #276
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http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ts-system.html

We've been revisiting that here Mr Benitez
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:09 PM   #277
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2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 ROAR Carpet Nats we're all sold out. Max is 25 heats, that works out to 250 entries for this event.
2006 - 285 entries
2007 - 275 entries
2008 - 300 entries
2009 - 285 entries

Electric Off Road has been sold out the last couple of years with nearly 300 or more entries in '08 @ Hot Rod Hobbies and '09 at Hobby Plex.

The only ROAR Electric National event that hasn't had a sale out in many years is paved on road.4

Qualifying for nationals is a great idea it can and should work with the right system. Yes there are other sanctioning bodies in other genres of racing that have ranking systems and it's time for RC and ROAR as well. Just have to figure out how to make a fair points system work and how to implement it.
Ahhh thanks for correcting me. My bad. That's what I get for taking last summer off of racing.

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Old 03-30-2010, 10:44 PM   #278
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free bump because there was some good discussion going on here
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:51 AM   #279
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Yes but like every other thread like this there's lots of discussion but no solutions.

To really change things for the better, all racers should:

1. Join ROAR if you're not a member already.

2. Get involved with ROAR, contact your regional director, see what's going on, go to ROAR races even if there's a rule you don't like. Not going to a ROAR race for something stupid like a rule you don't agree with does more harm than good.

3. Make suggestions to ROAR of what you would like to see, and make it constructive. Don't just sit there and say ROAR sucks, that does no good.

And of you don't want to do all this, then form your own Organization, and let me know how that works out.
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:24 PM   #280
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I may get shouted down for this but I think a technology freeze may be in order. With what seems like a constant change in technology on the electric side, its hard to come up with rules (especially for bringing in new life into the hobby) when it seems like there is something new and costs for chassis and assorted other things seem to spiral higher and higher. I think we need to hold up on that for a year or so and that way we can take what we have and come up with structures that work. I still think that a rookie class is in order, this will also give time to work out the kinks for some sort of regional and national points system as well. Me personally (as someone who is largely outside of the hobby) if there was a rookie class and the financials could be worked out to make it relatively low cost to get involved in but still allow for greater advancement to the next level (sportsman, expert and pro like I had outlined a number of pages back) Id dive in headfirst.
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:47 PM   #281
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thought Id post this up here since class structure was a major discussion point for much of this thread:

Quote:
Sportsman TC
Expert TC (17.5)
Open TC
Expert 1/12th (17.5)
Open 1/12th
Expert World GT (13.5)

Sportsman Divisions will race using the ROAR Sportsman Participant National Guidelines (http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/...guidelines.pdf), ROAR approved 17.5 brushless motors and Sportsman approved esc list. The list will be compiled and posted for member use in the coming weeks.

Expert division will use ROAR approved motor winds as designated in the class list and open escís.

Open Divisions can use any 1:10 Class Motor Approved . All motors and batteries used must be published on the ROAR Products listing 14 Days prior to start of the event.
This was in the ROAR Paved nats discussion.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:32 PM   #282
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thought Id post this up here since class structure was a major discussion point for much of this thread:



This was in the ROAR Paved nats discussion.
Next ROAR will have Spec tires, motor, battery,body, weight, ESC, for each class.

And you know what ROAR will have turned into?

The Tamiya TCS!! I guess Tamiya is ahead of the times....
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:03 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
I may get shouted down for this but I think a technology freeze may be in order. With what seems like a constant change in technology on the electric side, its hard to come up with rules (especially for bringing in new life into the hobby) when it seems like there is something new and costs for chassis and assorted other things seem to spiral higher and higher. I think we need to hold up on that for a year or so and that way we can take what we have and come up with structures that work. I still think that a rookie class is in order, this will also give time to work out the kinks for some sort of regional and national points system as well. Me personally (as someone who is largely outside of the hobby) if there was a rookie class and the financials could be worked out to make it relatively low cost to get involved in but still allow for greater advancement to the next level (sportsman, expert and pro like I had outlined a number of pages back) Id dive in headfirst.
Oh man I just keep getting pulled in.....

I think you have a good point about a rookie class but I also think the feasability is suspect. Fact is you need numbers to have a legitimate class and unless you get tenured people to run the class thereby showing its legitimacy, nobody cares. And to give some background I am one of the newbies (<1 year experience) everybody seems to be worried about. What I want is to run against good competition and to get better. That is the point of racing. Otherwise I'd be content to just run laps. Sadly, for some, racing involves somebody coming in last. It happens to me, a lot. For those that can't accept losing or the learning curve of RC competition maybe guitar hero or super mario cart is a better option. That is ok, really.

Instead of trying to add more classes or dumb things down, how about working on making classes that have some differentiation, are meaningful and going from there? I saw another thread where they seem to be going in that direction with a esc limited 17.5 sportsman class, expert 17.5 and Open. Maybe even stick with a class structure for more than six months? How novel. Give the new guy/gal/whatever support but most importantly give them enough credit to figure out what class works for them. If somebody would have suggested running some douche mini when I started I would have told them to get stuffed, saved the money and spent time on my boat.

Trackdesigner, please don't take this as a slam. That wasn't the intention but sometimes having a bunch of tenured racers trying to figure out what is best for new guys like me analogous to the foxes guarding the henhouse.

Points system, right on. This is racing, let's rank it. If the points say I suck, so be it. At least I know where I stand and what to shoot for.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:15 PM   #284
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The On-Road Fuel Nats is in June and it already has over 120 entries. Why the difference? Less classes?
(1) tc class and everyone there accept the fact that if you have the most modded .12, you still have to drive it. Also, nitro doesn't have an IIC or Snowbirds that mean more than the ROAR Nats to the racers. The closest was an annual race at 301 where you would get a bigger turnout than the Nats.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:18 PM   #285
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Oh man I just keep getting pulled in.....

I think you have a good point about a rookie class but I also think the feasability is suspect. Fact is you need numbers to have a legitimate class and unless you get tenured people to run the class thereby showing its legitimacy, nobody cares. And to give some background I am one of the newbies (<1 year experience) everybody seems to be worried about. What I want is to run against good competition and to get better. That is the point of racing. Otherwise I'd be content to just run laps. Sadly, for some, racing involves somebody coming in last. It happens to me, a lot. For those that can't accept losing or the learning curve of RC competition maybe guitar hero or super mario cart is a better option. That is ok, really.

Instead of trying to add more classes or dumb things down, how about working on making classes that have some differentiation, are meaningful and going from there? I saw another thread where they seem to be going in that direction with a esc limited 17.5 sportsman class, expert 17.5 and Open. Maybe even stick with a class structure for more than six months? How novel. Give the new guy/gal/whatever support but most importantly give them enough credit to figure out what class works for them. If somebody would have suggested running some douche mini when I started I would have told them to get stuffed, saved the money and spent time on my boat.

Trackdesigner, please don't take this as a slam. That wasn't the intention but sometimes having a bunch of tenured racers trying to figure out what is best for new guys like me analogous to the foxes guarding the henhouse.

Points system, right on. This is racing, let's rank it. If the points say I suck, so be it. At least I know where I stand and what to shoot for.
I appreciate the sentiment Chaz and your thoughts. as someone who has been efforting getting off the sidelines myself it is good to seek insight from those who have gotten off the sidelines.
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