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Old 03-18-2010, 02:19 PM   #136
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This is the same argument for making people run mod....why consolidate them to a FASTER class?? The majority doesnt like to go faster but its ok to force them to go faster instead of making the few that want to go faster go slower.....I get it now.... I agree there are too many classes....but the problem is each class has people that like the class. Really why is it ok to tell the most popular class that they need to change to a less popular one is all Im saying. There is no easy solution....if its mod...then there is already a mod class but its not working...so what is it?
Honestly, stock is not a bad class. It's just the irritating problems that are following it. Mod is the way out of the problems, it's fun,
fast.

I don't know the solution. But it's mine.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:37 PM   #137
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Rich Browne

Don't leave it up to the racers, thats what got us in this mess to begin with. GET RID OF ANY SPEC CLASS becuase when 17.5 spec lap times are from no more then .5 off from Mod then its not really SPEC RACING. This is my solution just make the tuff call and run Mod and 21.5 and be prepared for RCTECH TO GO IN COMPLETE MELTDOWN MODE WITH THE FOLLOWING REPLIES:
1. Roar is killing touring
2. Get rid of Roar
3. Get rid of Dawn Sanchez
4. Screw the Nats I'll be racing at my local track

The funny thing is nobody wants to run Mod but have been runnin' mild Mod laps times with the advancement of ESC's

Rich make the unpopular chose but it is the right thing to do
Forgot 1 important thing since Mod is open there is no reason why can't use a 13.5 or a 10.5 in Mod
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:44 PM   #138
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Rich Browne

Don't leave it up to the racers, thats what got us in this mess to begin with. GET RID OF ANY SPEC CLASS becuase when 17.5 spec lap times are from no more then .5 off from Mod then its not really SPEC RACING. This is my solution just make the tuff call and run Mod and 21.5 and be prepared for RCTECH TO GO IN COMPLETE MELTDOWN MODE WITH THE FOLLOWING REPLIES:
1. Roar is killing touring
2. Get rid of Roar
3. Get rid of Dawn Sanchez
4. Screw the Nats I'll be racing at my local track

The funny thing is nobody wants to run Mod but have been runnin' mild Mod laps times with the advancement of ESC's

Rich make the unpopular chose but it is the right thing to do
Here's the deal. There are lots of guys/gals way smarter than me. I respect the fact I don't know everything - but, I will make an informed decision - based upon what I feel are solid foundations of expertise and spending time to understand the issue at hand.

As a comment - I love power - if I can get a car to take a 4.5 turn, hell, baby, I'm all about that (but, that's just me)
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:44 PM   #139
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Personally I think that the stock class should utilize a motor that is even less power than a 21.5. Although most of the speed control advancement has slowed down for a bit I am sure we have not seen the end of it. Maybe we should consider that in a year we will be having the same discussion about the 21.5 motor being to fast.

On another note I personally think we should do away with 13.5 all together and rebuild the modified class in the U.S. We have a lot of talented drivers in the U.S that are more than capable of running modified. Cuff's,Shreff,Fairtrace for example are more than capable to make a modified A. When I started and for many years after I always looked up to the racers running modified and set my self a goal to achieve. Remember the days where you were at a big race and the track was surrounded with spectators to watch the Modified A main? When you really had to be on top of your game to even have a chance? This is the excitement that is lacking in on road right now.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:48 PM   #140
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Mr Browne...there are a lot of very astute RC minds on this board and it would be good to tap a booming resource until the ROAR forum is up and running
As long as the current discussion stays in this tone - hell ya, I say, let's tap away - I'm all in
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:38 PM   #141
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Another idea that has been tried and I broached this in a WGT discussion...have RC events at legit road racing events like WC and ALMS. Get RC out in front of the masses. have manufacturers selling their wares in the paddock and around the track too.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:40 PM   #142
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Could I ask for Cliff Notes, then?

Rick, all I can do is try. I am willing, but, I'm from the other side of the fence (fuel) - you have a TON of knowledge and racing respect. I can only offer my willingness to serve. I do like RC racing it is a true passion.
ROAR is only a small part of the problem. The racers are a big part of the problem. And it is not just in on-road, off road is starting to face the same problems.

Our local off-road guy has a local series race this weekened which is expecting to be full at 200 or so entries. Great right? Not really, because there are 13 classes. You might get a C main in one of them if you are lucky.

Sean C said it best just this morning. "Nobody wants to run in a class that nobody races in. And nobody wants to race in a class with too much competition".

And then you have a new class of race truck comgin along and the manufacturers and racers want a new motor rules set created specifically for this class. ROAR makes rules and they BITCH about them rather than embracing the chance for a legitimate racing class.

The nitro racing is just as bad. Sure off-road bodies are sort of made up as yuo go along like the real ones. But the new biggy and truggy bodies are hideous. The bodies are made strictly for funtion and don' closely resember real cars (they have to "grow on you" the racers say), the tracks are so complicated that only the best drivers can get around them without crashing, and the racers are being split into so many classes so everyone can be a winner. (the latest big nitro race has three buggy classes and three truggy classes. This all sounds very familiar.

Does anyone really thing that people will be satisfied with a no-timing ESC setting? I can already see it...ROAR implements this rule, but the local club tracks don't care and are too lazy to tech it or don't want to upset their customers ("we dont race ROAR rules!") and the racers want to run as fast as possible. Then the ROAR Nats roll arond and everyone bitches because they have to run a slow profile and they would rather run the local club race where they can do what they want.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:44 PM   #143
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Another idea that has been tried and I broached this in a WGT discussion...have RC events at legit road racing events like WC and ALMS. Get RC out in front of the masses. have manufacturers selling their wares in the paddock and around the track too.
Here is the problem. The racers don't care where the races are as long as the track is smooth and has traction.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:54 PM   #144
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Im pretty sure that wont be a problem...I mean there was an exhibition at California Speedway when the Japan GT Championship (now called Super GT I think) and there wasnt a lick of complaint about the traction there. Find a good medium to high traffic (foot traffic) spot on the infield, set up tents, put together a decent layout and run two heats and a main.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:59 PM   #145
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Im pretty sure that wont be a problem...I mean there was an exhibition at California Speedway when the Japan GT Championship (now called Super GT I think) and there wasnt a lick of complaint about the traction there. Find a good medium to high traffic (foot traffic) spot on the infield, set up tents, put together a decent layout and run two heats and a main.
The traction sucked and we had to run bad handling HPI bodies. I was there.
But I get what you are saying
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:05 PM   #146
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Thanks...and an idea branching off of that...have racers available in between sessions to answer any questions people may have about it...when someone asks the inevitable question of cost, they can answer (truthfully) but also encourage them that a RTR can be had for much less and have a local shop and track or two set up where people can buy things and also get information on where they can race.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:15 PM   #147
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Here is the problem. The racers don't care where the races are as long as the track is smooth and has traction.
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
Im pretty sure that wont be a problem...I mean there was an exhibition at California Speedway when the Japan GT Championship (now called Super GT I think) and there wasnt a lick of complaint about the traction there. Find a good medium to high traffic (foot traffic) spot on the infield, set up tents, put together a decent layout and run two heats and a main.
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The traction sucked and we had to run bad handling HPI bodies. I was there.
But I get what you are saying
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Thanks...and an idea branching off of that...have racers available in between sessions to answer any questions people may have about it...when someone asks the inevitable question of cost, they can answer (truthfully) but also encourage them that a RTR can be had for much less and have a local shop and track or two set up where people can buy things and also get information on where they can race.
This already happens in New Jersey every summer with Ray Murray's SJCCR events held at New Jersey Motorsports Park and it's a growing success! They run RCGT and VTA. The thousands of spectators at each event readily identify with all the bodies, and are welcomed into the pits by the many ambassadors this club has in its ranks. So Rick, as much as you speak many solid truths, your desire to run "race bodies" does not appeal to the spectators. I for one will gladly trade absolute aerodynamic performance for a handful of newbies to race with.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:40 PM   #148
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I've jumped in with my ass in the lead. Took a few well deserved shots in the ol 'touche ...and wham - here we are.
LOL, then you'd be right at home at the Gate...

-Sean
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:48 PM   #149
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Sean C said it best just this morning. "Nobody wants to run in a class that nobody races in. And nobody wants to race in a class with too much competition".
racers have to learn to get their fair share of "ass whooping". if you win in a class with 7 guys, how much fun is that? not much "glory" & "prestige" behind that win.

I think this is why the Reedy Race of Champions is a great race. 3 classes. DONE.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:49 PM   #150
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Its not working in america because everybody is to pansy to step up there game. If anybody thinks mod is to fast, then they are just covering up a need for more practice. You dont have to drop in a 4.5.

WHY on this earth would you consolidate to the SLOWER class?? Some of us dont like going slow. We like having power, since after all, these are just expensive toy cars. Ive never had anybody come into the hobby shop and ask "Hey man, this car is sick, how slow does it go?"

If we need a 25.5 sportsman class, and a Open class (Modified Class) to make peoples passions for slowness fulfilled, thats fine. But dont count out the people that wanna run MODIFIED.

To many classes, not enough guys that wanna fulfill 99.99% of humanities quench for speed.
its not about being a pansy. there is no doubt in my mind that todays 13.5 will be FASTER then last years MOD class at our local track, so whats the point of running MOD, in order not to be pansy, or to just be able to give myself a handjob and say, hey look at mister big time over here, I run MOD with the Big Boys, yea, but your going slower then the little girls 13.5

and using your example, of ALL those guys that come in the store and ask, how fast does it go, how many of them actually buy a car when you tell them how much it cost to go that fast? how many of them come race? all of them i suppose, and thats why mod is the biggest class at all the events all over the world.

sorry couldn't help it.
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