3LikesBMI Racing "Copperhead 12" discussion and support
10-22-2011, 06:07 PM
#2146
All kidding aside, i do have it as an option but it is just an option. Its not the major change. And to be honest, Its getting to the point where i am just losing enthusiasm. With pricing and quality dropping with the Companies having there cars made in China and Taiwan, It is hard to release a car that is high quality better yet, innovative. Profits are just not there and i have too much pride to jump on the bandwagon of selling the Chinese garbage. It gets very frustrating.
10-22-2011, 07:39 PM
#2147
It may be a small niche market...but there will always be people willing to pay a lil more for quality. I'd rather pay more up front for the car...than get one with plastic parts and have to upgrade them later to the machined aluminum option parts. Yes manufacturers sell a lot more of the less expensive versions of their cars...but there are still quite a few who buy the factor team versions.
10-22-2011, 08:31 PM
#2148
I know. I think it is difficult to have something that is truly superior when people get blinded by false claims. To add to that, people really take to heart what the results are at the big races. That is the silly part. The same guys have been winning these races for god knows how long. And not always with the same car. All the big races have shown me is that the typical fast guys will win regardless of what they drive. It doesnt matter which car,battery,motor,radio,t shirt,ect. But yet the same guy who won for the past few years still wins, it must be that the new sleek roll over antenna and new knock off of a 20 year old strut front end that was good for that extra tenth, carried more corner speed, and lowered the CG a whopping .01mm.That is a must have. But now it is that the battery was rotated, damn it, what was i thinking. You just cant compete without it.
But yet the same guy who won for the past few years still wins, it must be that the new sleek roll over antenna and new knock off of a 20 year old strut front end that was good for that extra tenth, carried more corner speed, and lowered the CG a whopping .01mm.That is a must have. But now it is that the battery was rotated, damn it, what was i thinking. You just cant compete without it.
10-22-2011, 10:04 PM
#2149
So how's the new rear pod coming?
E
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10-22-2011, 11:04 PM
#2150
Tech Fanatic
Jason, your last few posts are either unfair, or naive. I am not getting at you in any way, and enjoyed a long run with your car a couple of years back, but please consider...
You do this as a hobby, they do it as a business. As a business, others have to sell product, and they will market (create the need) to ensure that sales (fulfill the need) generate the profit required. You have previously said that you could not run BMI as a stand alone company, and at the prices your charge half the 12th customers would have to go elsewhere. Let's also remember that you started your business by offering alternatives for their standard product, and that their ability to supply to the masses at affordable prices allows you to supply to those who can afford your product. If they weren't there, you wouldn't be.
"...big and drastic improvements..." I think not. With great respect, and maybe when you are sat in the armchair with a beer, ask yourself honestly whether or not any of your stuff meets that description. Have any of the guys who bought your kit made such a leap up the qualifying list that it is obvious your designs are a "big and drastic improvement?" No...
"But yet the same guy who won for the last few years still wins." And, oddly enough, the same guys below him are pretty much the same guys right down the Z Final, despite quite a few of them buying BMI cars. Isn't it the case that 12th is THE class where talent behind the sticks counts for oodles more than anything in a plastic packet or cardboard box... including the bags and boxes that come from Florida...?
Many of the new drivers who have joined 12th have come from TC and other classes where it is expected that there will be new parts very season. Believe it or not there is an expectation that new bits come along all the time. Only a fool or a billionaire would not use that business opportunity to increase sales and profits. Let's face it, we all buy new cars because there is a new model every year, and not because ours is 20 years old and beyond further repair. 12th had joined 21st century marketing, that's all.
I agree completely with your assessment of the latest fad for in-line chassis. For reasons not connected to that, these cars are faster than the previous version. Because most people do not understand how a pan car works, they can't see why. Nonetheless, manufacturers are selling to everyone the same kit their best drivers use to win the big events. Isn't that a good thing?
No, winning does not mean it is the best product, but winning does not sell product either. If it did, based on past results at major US events, everyone would be driving CRC! And how do you think CRC and AE feel when one of their competitors and an RC industry figure comes on a public forum and rubbishes their products so possibly reducing sales in a market that is small enough already? If I were them, I would be displeased to find an industry peer rubbishing my product...
Your products provide innovation and something different, and I hope you stay in 'business' for a long time. But your rant is also saying "most of the people out there are dumb, and will buy anything." Do you think that is the best way to attract your future customers? Do you think, like the music industry, that the best way to prosper is by telling your customers that they are wrong, and that the only way forward is to pay more for the same product? It might make your current customers feel a bit superior, but prospective customers will be looking elsewhere!
I exaggerate my points for effect, and I say again that this is not personal as I always enjoyed an excellent relationship with you and would hope to do so again in the future. Maybe we do all agree with you, but maybe you could re-read your posts and ask yourself "did I say that out loud?" Just a thought...
You do this as a hobby, they do it as a business. As a business, others have to sell product, and they will market (create the need) to ensure that sales (fulfill the need) generate the profit required. You have previously said that you could not run BMI as a stand alone company, and at the prices your charge half the 12th customers would have to go elsewhere. Let's also remember that you started your business by offering alternatives for their standard product, and that their ability to supply to the masses at affordable prices allows you to supply to those who can afford your product. If they weren't there, you wouldn't be.
"...big and drastic improvements..." I think not. With great respect, and maybe when you are sat in the armchair with a beer, ask yourself honestly whether or not any of your stuff meets that description. Have any of the guys who bought your kit made such a leap up the qualifying list that it is obvious your designs are a "big and drastic improvement?" No...
"But yet the same guy who won for the last few years still wins." And, oddly enough, the same guys below him are pretty much the same guys right down the Z Final, despite quite a few of them buying BMI cars. Isn't it the case that 12th is THE class where talent behind the sticks counts for oodles more than anything in a plastic packet or cardboard box... including the bags and boxes that come from Florida...?
Many of the new drivers who have joined 12th have come from TC and other classes where it is expected that there will be new parts very season. Believe it or not there is an expectation that new bits come along all the time. Only a fool or a billionaire would not use that business opportunity to increase sales and profits. Let's face it, we all buy new cars because there is a new model every year, and not because ours is 20 years old and beyond further repair. 12th had joined 21st century marketing, that's all.
I agree completely with your assessment of the latest fad for in-line chassis. For reasons not connected to that, these cars are faster than the previous version. Because most people do not understand how a pan car works, they can't see why. Nonetheless, manufacturers are selling to everyone the same kit their best drivers use to win the big events. Isn't that a good thing?
No, winning does not mean it is the best product, but winning does not sell product either. If it did, based on past results at major US events, everyone would be driving CRC! And how do you think CRC and AE feel when one of their competitors and an RC industry figure comes on a public forum and rubbishes their products so possibly reducing sales in a market that is small enough already? If I were them, I would be displeased to find an industry peer rubbishing my product...
Your products provide innovation and something different, and I hope you stay in 'business' for a long time. But your rant is also saying "most of the people out there are dumb, and will buy anything." Do you think that is the best way to attract your future customers? Do you think, like the music industry, that the best way to prosper is by telling your customers that they are wrong, and that the only way forward is to pay more for the same product? It might make your current customers feel a bit superior, but prospective customers will be looking elsewhere!
I exaggerate my points for effect, and I say again that this is not personal as I always enjoyed an excellent relationship with you and would hope to do so again in the future. Maybe we do all agree with you, but maybe you could re-read your posts and ask yourself "did I say that out loud?" Just a thought...
10-23-2011, 12:54 AM
#2151
Jason, your last few posts are either unfair, or naive. I am not getting at you in any way, and enjoyed a long run with your car a couple of years back, but please consider...
You do this as a hobby, they do it as a business. As a business, others have to sell product, and they will market (create the need) to ensure that sales (fulfill the need) generate the profit required. You have previously said that you could not run BMI as a stand alone company, and at the prices your charge half the 12th customers would have to go elsewhere. Let's also remember that you started your business by offering alternatives for their standard product, and that their ability to supply to the masses at affordable prices allows you to supply to those who can afford your product. If they weren't there, you wouldn't be.
"...big and drastic improvements..." I think not. With great respect, and maybe when you are sat in the armchair with a beer, ask yourself honestly whether or not any of your stuff meets that description. Have any of the guys who bought your kit made such a leap up the qualifying list that it is obvious your designs are a "big and drastic improvement?" No...
"But yet the same guy who won for the last few years still wins." And, oddly enough, the same guys below him are pretty much the same guys right down the Z Final, despite quite a few of them buying BMI cars. Isn't it the case that 12th is THE class where talent behind the sticks counts for oodles more than anything in a plastic packet or cardboard box... including the bags and boxes that come from Florida...?
Many of the new drivers who have joined 12th have come from TC and other classes where it is expected that there will be new parts very season. Believe it or not there is an expectation that new bits come along all the time. Only a fool or a billionaire would not use that business opportunity to increase sales and profits. Let's face it, we all buy new cars because there is a new model every year, and not because ours is 20 years old and beyond further repair. 12th had joined 21st century marketing, that's all.
I agree completely with your assessment of the latest fad for in-line chassis. For reasons not connected to that, these cars are faster than the previous version. Because most people do not understand how a pan car works, they can't see why. Nonetheless, manufacturers are selling to everyone the same kit their best drivers use to win the big events. Isn't that a good thing?
No, winning does not mean it is the best product, but winning does not sell product either. If it did, based on past results at major US events, everyone would be driving CRC! And how do you think CRC and AE feel when one of their competitors and an RC industry figure comes on a public forum and rubbishes their products so possibly reducing sales in a market that is small enough already? If I were them, I would be displeased to find an industry peer rubbishing my product...
Your products provide innovation and something different, and I hope you stay in 'business' for a long time. But your rant is also saying "most of the people out there are dumb, and will buy anything." Do you think that is the best way to attract your future customers? Do you think, like the music industry, that the best way to prosper is by telling your customers that they are wrong, and that the only way forward is to pay more for the same product? It might make your current customers feel a bit superior, but prospective customers will be looking elsewhere!
I exaggerate my points for effect, and I say again that this is not personal as I always enjoyed an excellent relationship with you and would hope to do so again in the future. Maybe we do all agree with you, but maybe you could re-read your posts and ask yourself "did I say that out loud?" Just a thought...
You do this as a hobby, they do it as a business. As a business, others have to sell product, and they will market (create the need) to ensure that sales (fulfill the need) generate the profit required. You have previously said that you could not run BMI as a stand alone company, and at the prices your charge half the 12th customers would have to go elsewhere. Let's also remember that you started your business by offering alternatives for their standard product, and that their ability to supply to the masses at affordable prices allows you to supply to those who can afford your product. If they weren't there, you wouldn't be.
"...big and drastic improvements..." I think not. With great respect, and maybe when you are sat in the armchair with a beer, ask yourself honestly whether or not any of your stuff meets that description. Have any of the guys who bought your kit made such a leap up the qualifying list that it is obvious your designs are a "big and drastic improvement?" No...
"But yet the same guy who won for the last few years still wins." And, oddly enough, the same guys below him are pretty much the same guys right down the Z Final, despite quite a few of them buying BMI cars. Isn't it the case that 12th is THE class where talent behind the sticks counts for oodles more than anything in a plastic packet or cardboard box... including the bags and boxes that come from Florida...?
Many of the new drivers who have joined 12th have come from TC and other classes where it is expected that there will be new parts very season. Believe it or not there is an expectation that new bits come along all the time. Only a fool or a billionaire would not use that business opportunity to increase sales and profits. Let's face it, we all buy new cars because there is a new model every year, and not because ours is 20 years old and beyond further repair. 12th had joined 21st century marketing, that's all.
I agree completely with your assessment of the latest fad for in-line chassis. For reasons not connected to that, these cars are faster than the previous version. Because most people do not understand how a pan car works, they can't see why. Nonetheless, manufacturers are selling to everyone the same kit their best drivers use to win the big events. Isn't that a good thing?
No, winning does not mean it is the best product, but winning does not sell product either. If it did, based on past results at major US events, everyone would be driving CRC! And how do you think CRC and AE feel when one of their competitors and an RC industry figure comes on a public forum and rubbishes their products so possibly reducing sales in a market that is small enough already? If I were them, I would be displeased to find an industry peer rubbishing my product...
Your products provide innovation and something different, and I hope you stay in 'business' for a long time. But your rant is also saying "most of the people out there are dumb, and will buy anything." Do you think that is the best way to attract your future customers? Do you think, like the music industry, that the best way to prosper is by telling your customers that they are wrong, and that the only way forward is to pay more for the same product? It might make your current customers feel a bit superior, but prospective customers will be looking elsewhere!
I exaggerate my points for effect, and I say again that this is not personal as I always enjoyed an excellent relationship with you and would hope to do so again in the future. Maybe we do all agree with you, but maybe you could re-read your posts and ask yourself "did I say that out loud?" Just a thought...
...lolI think his points weren't so much to invalidate/compete with other manufacturers as it was simply a wake up call notice to consumers considering the sometimes marketing we are unconscious too
At the same time I myself like to get excited about new products or innovations in life and the inline stuff is exciting as 12th is mostly the same for many years amongst most manufacturers and the inline is the biggest universal change in recent times regarding kits and upgrades, etc...
Maybe he is like RC activist
Pretty sure I said that out loud
10-23-2011, 04:26 AM
#2152
To some extent i do agree with your constructive criticism but the thing you do need to understand is i am not targeting any specific manufacturer. I am simply saying that from what i have seen, the claims made are bogus. And i am sorry, they are.
And yes, i have made many innovations to these cars and they allow for people to have cars that are much more durable than any 1/12th car has ever been. My cars are easier to set up and they finish races. My pod design started the new trend of pods and they went away from the standard pods like you have seen on the L4 with the full upper and lower pods. I dont claim that my car made people win, My claim has always been that it is tweak free, fast as any other, and the highest quality. I have brought people into 1/12th that normally would have never gotten into it because i gave them a car they can work with, set up and maintain. This is what makes me happy.
No, i dont do this for my main business. I think this is why i feel this way. When customers call our shop, i talk to them as friends. I feel i have made a lot of friends through being in the business. This is why i get defensive when i see crazy marketing tactics that can fool the people i have really grown to enjoy. I hate to feel that they are being fooled. I dont like to bash my competition. To be honest, I wish them well. It bothers me when they falsely lead the general public to believe some of this stuff. I believe everyone needs to make a living and i dont knock them for that. I would rather see it be an honest living. I am not saying the general public are dumb, they are misinformed by the very companies who they trust and rely on to give them the knowledge to excel. That sucks. Sorry.
And yes, i have made many innovations to these cars and they allow for people to have cars that are much more durable than any 1/12th car has ever been. My cars are easier to set up and they finish races. My pod design started the new trend of pods and they went away from the standard pods like you have seen on the L4 with the full upper and lower pods. I dont claim that my car made people win, My claim has always been that it is tweak free, fast as any other, and the highest quality. I have brought people into 1/12th that normally would have never gotten into it because i gave them a car they can work with, set up and maintain. This is what makes me happy.
No, i dont do this for my main business. I think this is why i feel this way. When customers call our shop, i talk to them as friends. I feel i have made a lot of friends through being in the business. This is why i get defensive when i see crazy marketing tactics that can fool the people i have really grown to enjoy. I hate to feel that they are being fooled. I dont like to bash my competition. To be honest, I wish them well. It bothers me when they falsely lead the general public to believe some of this stuff. I believe everyone needs to make a living and i dont knock them for that. I would rather see it be an honest living. I am not saying the general public are dumb, they are misinformed by the very companies who they trust and rely on to give them the knowledge to excel. That sucks. Sorry.
10-23-2011, 11:03 AM
#2153
Frank Calandra said essentially the same thing to me when I was at the IIC...the in-line off-set battery is just taking the weight and rotating it 90 degrees so it really isn't changing anything. Which is why they went the shorty pack in-line route instead. To me it has the further disadvantage of having to stick with the exact same battery packs all the time otherwise you throw the balance of the car off every time you change batteries. The one advantage I do see from the in-line off-set design is it makes wiring easier and cleaner. The one thing I've been thinking about with the bell crank steering added in gives one the ability to move the servo back by the battery and ESC...then with a shock mount something like the CH10 if you mounted the electronics on some sort of tray you could literally move the entire weight package anywhere in the car.
10-23-2011, 09:24 PM
#2156
First race back from the IIC and man was my CH12 working great! Took 2 of the 3 mains in our triple A main. The last run I had a big lead but started making mistakes and Frank caught up for me we had a great battle right up to the finish line. He had passed me on the last lap or 2 then on the last lap we got together...let him go...and took of after him. Last corner his car went wide, I took the inside and across the finish line! I was really surprised as I ran the exact same setup I ran at the IIC...tires and all and the car was really hooked up...if anything it had a bit of a push that I will be working to tune out of the car a little bit. It was some really great and close racing...haven't had that much fun locally in a long time.
10-24-2011, 02:23 AM
#2157
First race back from the IIC and man was my CH12 working great! Took 2 of the 3 mains in our triple A main. The last run I had a big lead but started making mistakes and Frank caught up for me we had a great battle right up to the finish line. He had passed me on the last lap or 2 then on the last lap we got together...let him go...and took of after him. Last corner his car went wide, I took the inside and across the finish line! I was really surprised as I ran the exact same setup I ran at the IIC...tires and all and the car was really hooked up...if anything it had a bit of a push that I will be working to tune out of the car a little bit. It was some really great and close racing...haven't had that much fun locally in a long time.
10-24-2011, 10:53 AM
#2158
I finally hit the track with my new CH12. First time I've run 1/12 in ten months. Wow, this car turns,and carrys speed through the turns. Its very easy to drive even for and old guy like me.
I would like to know, who else with a BMI is going to the indoor champs at Cleveland ?
Michael Mercer
I would like to know, who else with a BMI is going to the indoor champs at Cleveland ?
Michael Mercer
10-24-2011, 01:30 PM
#2159
I am on the cusp of buying a new 1/12 kit. Looking at the Speed Merchant, Serpent, and the Copperhead. In fact, I just started researching the copperhead a couple days ago. I like that the kit is designed and mfg here in the states.
Questions: Is the front end (NOT the new one) proprietary BMI or is it another mfg's front end? Approximately when will the new rear end be released....any actual pics?
Thanks!
Questions: Is the front end (NOT the new one) proprietary BMI or is it another mfg's front end? Approximately when will the new rear end be released....any actual pics?
Thanks!
10-24-2011, 01:44 PM
#2160
I am on the cusp of buying a new 1/12 kit. Looking at the Speed Merchant, Serpent, and the Copperhead. In fact, I just started researching the copperhead a couple days ago. I like that the kit is designed and mfg here in the states.
Questions: Is the front end (NOT the new one) proprietary BMI or is it another mfg's front end? Approximately when will the new rear end be released....any actual pics?
Thanks!
Questions: Is the front end (NOT the new one) proprietary BMI or is it another mfg's front end? Approximately when will the new rear end be released....any actual pics?
Thanks!
I think it is anyway however the car works great out of the box and the quality is second to none!
Good luck.