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Old 04-14-2004, 11:15 PM   #106
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actually

the last exchange of posts between you and mopwr are still on course... I think Mopwr was still discussing TC when he responded to you...

I just picked the oval car as an example since he said he mentioned it when answering my wedge question...

This is a good thread.

I've been tuning my kit using Marin Crisp's book but I've always taken weight distribution for granted. I did notice the problem when I was using a kit with the battery on one side. Setting the tweak usually threw my ride height off and I would end with diagonally stiff car with absurd ride height difference left and right.

Gotta read this thread one more time heheheheh
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:29 AM   #107
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IM still voting for the four scale system myself. I think it is much more acurate than the integy system. It might be different if we raced on the axles but we race on the tires. And tires are hard to cut perfect and they sure dont wear perfect. Plus its alot quicker. You dont need a separate board to scale on just a setup board big enough and it has to be adjustable. I just use one scale to scale my car and I dont use scales to set tweak/wedge. A good tweak board works good for this. Tweak cannot be set on a TC using the knife method as the suspension downtravel is set by the screws that may or may not be perfectly even side to side. But even with a tweak board all four shocks must be used when making adjustments if ride height is to be unaffected.
Also if you only adjust two opposing corners the other two ends will be uneven unless all four springs are of the same rate. The weight you transfer to the corners you dont adjust will act different on each spring so the lighter spring will loose ride height and the heavier one will gain. Balancing the car alwayse has to be done first. Setting the right/left % and the front/rear% can only be done by adding or moving weight or components placed in the car. Then tweak can be set even. Setting a cars tweak and setting the cars cross weight to 50% are the same thing. And alwayse check rideheight whenever a big change is made as a double check. and when finished. If you start with all corners at 5mm then you should end with 5mm otherwise you did something wrong. Usually if I make alot of changes either both fronts or both rears are a little off because of making the same adjustments to different rate springs but thats easily adjusted by making the same adjustment to both shocks on the same end. And when it goes back on the tweak board it alwayse right on.

rough512
The xxx main book is a must have but its more universal. For the TC3 or any chassis like it associateds setup guide is much better. What car do you guys all have?
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Last edited by Speedie; 04-15-2004 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:33 AM   #108
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I'm running the original T1 of Xray with Pivot ball suspension... for a time, I was planning to make a battery tray so I can move the batteries a little forward thinking that the the weight is too much rearwards with the stock position...

I only discovered a few nights ago that the kit was in fact almost balance Front-rear with the stock battery position (all rear). Just this week I attempted to tweak the kit on an MIP tweak station. I ended up with the one side of the rear end slightly higher than the other. I left it at that. After reading this thread, I might try again to re-balance the kit...
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:50 AM   #109
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If you have the balance r/l and f/r set where you want it then using the 4 shock method of adjusting will tweak it right without messing up your rideheights.
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:50 AM   #110
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I use four Jennings JS-500 to weight and adjust my car.

http://www.saveonscales.com/jennings.html

They are small, light and very accurate.

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Old 04-15-2004, 03:06 AM   #111
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Thier little credit card scale would be way cool looking to scale with if it had a large enough capacity.
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:37 AM   #112
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cartmen,
no you didnt jump in but somehow this wedge got brought into the subject of balancing the car properly.probably because thats exactly what you get if you dont do this step to your car.plus i had to answer roughs question.
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:49 AM   #113
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Ok, since I have no scales, is it a valid check of l/r weight distribution if you were to pick the car up by the middle of the shock towers and see which side lifted first? If not, do you check it by lifting front or rear separately? Also, do you check f/r weight from the middle of the wheelbase or elsewhere? Finally, would you balance a 1/12th scale car the same way, using weight distribution first then final adjusting using tweak screws or whatever the car has for this adjustment? Thanks!
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Old 04-15-2004, 09:38 AM   #114
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Yeah.. I was looking at those JS-500 scales. They looked about the right size for scaling my tc3 and they come with a nice little case to keep them in. I found a distributor that I can buy them from. I think it was around $30 each or $25 if I bought a case of 50 of them.

If any of you are interested just PM me. If enough people wanted them we might be able to get the case price. I'd actual cost plus actual shipping. No profit

I think Jennings also makes a JS-1000 scale that goes up to 1000 grams. I think they are a bit more expensive.
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Old 04-15-2004, 11:38 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by nickcacc
Ok, since I have no scales, is it a valid check of l/r weight distribution if you were to pick the car up by the middle of the shock towers and see which side lifted first? If not, do you check it by lifting front or rear separately? Also, do you check f/r weight from the middle of the wheelbase or elsewhere? Finally, would you balance a 1/12th scale car the same way, using weight distribution first then final adjusting using tweak screws or whatever the car has for this adjustment? Thanks!
People have been using that type of balancing method for a while. You can even buy a setup to hang the car from. I think scales are the best way but, the best thing for you is whats available. An easier way to balance this way is to mark the chassis centerling at the ends and the wheelbase centerline on the sides. Then glue a thumbtack upside down on top of 2 soda bottle caps for a fulcrum. This will work it wont be as easy but it will help. Just make sure you have the measurements on the centerlines perfect. on my old TC3 I took my exacto and made little spots at these points for the tacks to stay in. And the same methods work for 12th scales as well
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:39 PM   #116
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpeediePHATT
[B]IM still voting for the four scale system myself. I think it is much more acurate than the integy system.

Speedie you are the man!

I don't know how you figured this all out, but I have spent hundreds of hours on car balance and I still picked up lots of useful information from your posts. I used to race 12th scale on dirty parking lots, before they used any adhesives, and balance (tweak) was everything. I hope everyone realizes how much time they will save by following your advice.

I have tried the MIPS bubble tweak board, the integy system, and now a 4 scale system. I have not seen a better system than a 4 scale system. I just got mine a short time ago, and I am still trying to figure it out. I hope you get one soon, it will be interesting to get your take on that system.

Any insights on setting up a XXX-S?
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:21 PM   #117
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Good idea on the thumbtacks Speedie !!
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:13 PM   #118
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Big flat head 1" roofing nails also work. No glue needed
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:26 PM   #119
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I use the smallest wrench I have that can stand up on a table glass top... It has around 3mm. diameter... Then I try to balance my car by putting it ontop of the standing wrench..

I get to see the center of gravity using this method and I can roughly guess at the F/R and L/R weight distribution.

I still use my MIP for setting tweak
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Old 04-15-2004, 11:19 PM   #120
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the best and only way to get the car balanced right is to use 4 scales period. Get as low number as possible...as in down to .1 or .01 of a gram is the better way. Every .000001 counts with cars of their size and way they need to be ran and how close the racing is. The best way for a car to be setup is neutral 50-50 50-50 where you could find the exact center front back left right of the car and it would balance out perfect. You can tell greatly the difference in the car when it is like that. Even dragracing it would be noticalbe with a well balanced car.
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