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Old 02-23-2010, 03:38 PM   #1
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Default ESC Controversy Views and Opinions

As a nitro racer, I know that all nitro engines are not created equal. Some people have bigger budgets and can afford the more expensive engines such as Novarossi and Max Power - or some of the highly accalimed modified engines. Some people just don't want to spend that much money on an engine, even if they do have a bigger budget. We don't go complaining to racing officials that the other guy has a more expensive or faster motor if we know that he is running his car within the rules. That's just the way it is.

When I read about people getting upset about other racers' ESC being faster or having special features to make their cars go faster - and this "banning ESCs/features" thing, I don't quite understand what the big deal is. If "fairness" were at the very heart of the issue, then shouldn't everyone be racing the same car with the same gear? (i.e. identifical) But we all know that's just ridiculous. If it's all about the money, then would creating economy/budget classes make sense for those that can't keep up with the newest technology? I get the impression that people won't go for something like this!

As with cars, there comes a point when the older technology has to make way for the new and some of these older ESCs are going to have to move from the racing category to the bashing category. Is that such a bad thing? Is it someone's fault that they can afford newer technology while others cannot? I don't think so.

I can accept the fact that if I don't have the latest and greatest technology, that I'm going to be slower, so why can't everyone else?

When I see people using the word "cheating" - when they know very well that someone is racing within the stated rules, it just makes me cringe.
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:42 PM   #2
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I so agree with you
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:45 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by rmdhawaii View Post
As a nitro racer, I know that all nitro engines are not created equal. Some people have bigger budgets and can afford the more expensive engines such as Novarossi and Max Power - or some of the highly accalimed modified engines. Some people just don't want to spend that much money on an engine, even if they do have a bigger budget. We don't go complaining to racing officials that the other guy has a more expensive or faster motor if we know that he is running his car within the rules. That's just the way it is.

When I read about people getting upset about other racers' ESC being faster or having special features to make their cars go faster - and this "banning ESCs/features" thing, I don't quite understand what the big deal is. If "fairness" were at the very heart of the issue, then shouldn't everyone be racing the same car with the same gear? (i.e. identifical) But we all know that's just ridiculous. If it's all about the money, then would creating economy/budget classes make sense for those that can't keep up with the newest technology? I get the impression that people won't go for something like this!

As with cars, there comes a point when the older technology has to make way for the new and some of these older ESCs are going to have to move from the racing category to the bashing category. Is that such a bad thing? Is it someone's fault that they can afford newer technology while others cannot? I don't think so.

I can accept the fact that if I don't have the latest and greatest technology, that I'm going to be slower, so why can't everyone else?

When I see people using the word "cheating" - when they know very well that someone is racing within the stated rules, it just makes me cringe.
I share your views and like a well thought out debate. However, you may want to look at the last thread similar to this.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-problems.html

You're gonna get a lot of viewpoints....a lot will make sense but will be completely different. No one has the right answers...just lots of ideas
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:53 PM   #4
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Electro is fantastic for racing but what now happens with the speedo's is a problem.
Not for mod classes but for stock classes it's a problem.

I agree with you and when you see the rules about the Nitro motors than the play to get extra power, is a lot smaller than with electro.
I think that the electro class must do some thing to keep the class alive.
Ad my club I see that there are less racers than before. Some of them stop because of work and privet reasons.
But also drivers stop or don't start because of the price.

A few years ago you had a lot of drivers using TL-01 chassis and silver can motors.
Than the Xrays and TRF's and other cars came.
The price went up to compete.
This was for some drivers a reason to stop and now you see the same with the brushless speedo's.
New drivers are scared away when you tell them how much it cost.

Some clubs have started a TT-01 class or a Mini class with Tamiya M chassis cars.
We did that also and this year we start with that class.
I think that more speedo companies must come with a speedo like Speedpassion or something like that.

We have problems with the 17,5T class and I have forbidden several speedo's to keep the speed lower and the class available for cheap speedo's.

Bud it is as it is and the speedo companies do what is asked by the drivers and that is making the speedo's faster.
I hope that they bring just like Speedpassion a stock speedo for stock races that must be drivable for beginners and have the same speed.
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:53 PM   #5
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Good points. I totally agree. When you think about full-size racing, the teams with the bigger budgets are always more competitive. The same can be said for RC racing. However counterpoint, this is supposed to be a hobby where the average Joe should be able to the LHS, buy gear, and be competitive. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case.
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:58 PM   #6
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The argument is strictly concerning so called "stock" racing. If you want to make a nitro comparison, consider all motors are equal but some guys get to run a larger fuel tank and some are stuck at 75cc. I like the advances that electric is making because I'm in the Tekin camp. If I was loyal to LRP and had to replace my speedo every three months, I'm sure my thoughts would be different.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:04 PM   #7
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I'm still happier today than I was 5 years ago. Long nights in my basement performing voodoo on brushed motors sucked.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:09 PM   #8
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can only agree, there isnt a solution for it and we need to keep the industry going, thats why they are producing stuff so they can stay alive and this sport.
So i dont say that anything is unfair, but that people complain they dont have the money for it.
I myself dont have so much money to spend, but i try anyway to keep it going as good as i can.
and try to get the best stuff that works for me.




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Old 02-23-2010, 04:19 PM   #9
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I'm still happier today than I was 5 years ago. Long nights in my basement performing voodoo on brushed motors sucked.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:21 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bfong13 View Post
Good points. I totally agree. When you think about full-size racing, the teams with the bigger budgets are always more competitive. The same can be said for RC racing. However counterpoint, this is supposed to be a hobby where the average Joe should be able to the LHS, buy gear, and be competitive. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case.
+1
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by tallyrc View Post
I'm still happier today than I was 5 years ago. Long nights in my basement performing voodoo on brushed motors sucked.
Agree.

Also, as a long time user of a Tekin RS, I get annoyed that people who did not complain about my speed control when it was new, now complain about it even though I have spent no additional money on upgrading just free software updates.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii View Post
As a nitro racer, I know that all nitro engines are not created equal. Some people have bigger budgets and can afford the more expensive engines such as Novarossi and Max Power - or some of the highly accalimed modified engines. Some people just don't want to spend that much money on an engine, even if they do have a bigger budget. We don't go complaining to racing officials that the other guy has a more expensive or faster motor if we know that he is running his car within the rules. That's just the way it is.

When I read about people getting upset about other racers' ESC being faster or having special features to make their cars go faster - and this "banning ESCs/features" thing, I don't quite understand what the big deal is. If "fairness" were at the very heart of the issue, then shouldn't everyone be racing the same car with the same gear? (i.e. identifical) But we all know that's just ridiculous. If it's all about the money, then would creating economy/budget classes make sense for those that can't keep up with the newest technology? I get the impression that people won't go for something like this!

As with cars, there comes a point when the older technology has to make way for the new and some of these older ESCs are going to have to move from the racing category to the bashing category. Is that such a bad thing? Is it someone's fault that they can afford newer technology while others cannot? I don't think so.

I can accept the fact that if I don't have the latest and greatest technology, that I'm going to be slower, so why can't everyone else?

When I see people using the word "cheating" - when they know very well that someone is racing within the stated rules, it just makes me cringe.
Yeah, I agree, it sucks.

Seems like RC in general is just one more form of motorsport where he with the largest budget wins. Electric TC seems to have fixed the tire issue in it all, but regardless, it seems like more and more of a power game where ever you look at the results.
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:10 PM   #13
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I share your views and like a well thought out debate. However, you may want to look at the last thread similar to this.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-problems.html

You're gonna get a lot of viewpoints....a lot will make sense but will be completely different. No one has the right answers...just lots of ideas
Thanks for pointing out that thread. Very interesting discussion about all classes, not just stock.

For stock, I think there are too many competing agendas to try and make everyone happy - new racers, those who want to run "stock", those who have to run "stock" (can't afford or want to spend money on new gear) and those who just want to run another class to get more track/race time. Like you said - no right answers, just a lot of ideas; some of which I really liked.
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Doog View Post
Agree.

Also, as a long time user of a Tekin RS, I get annoyed that people who did not complain about my speed control when it was new, now complain about it even though I have spent no additional money on upgrading just free software updates.
What's really interesting about the RS, is that Tekin actually put out four different ESCs, each with new and improved features/capabilities. Because the upgrades have no cost associated with them, you really have gotten the best of both worlds - a new ESC at no cost.

It's terrible when jealousy rears it's ugly head.
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii View Post
As a nitro racer, I know that all nitro engines are not created equal. Some people have bigger budgets and can afford the more expensive engines such as Novarossi and Max Power - or some of the highly accalimed modified engines. Some people just don't want to spend that much money on an engine, even if they do have a bigger budget. We don't go complaining to racing officials that the other guy has a more expensive or faster motor if we know that he is running his car within the rules. That's just the way it is.

When I read about people getting upset about other racers' ESC being faster or having special features to make their cars go faster - and this "banning ESCs/features" thing, I don't quite understand what the big deal is. If "fairness" were at the very heart of the issue, then shouldn't everyone be racing the same car with the same gear? (i.e. identifical) But we all know that's just ridiculous. If it's all about the money, then would creating economy/budget classes make sense for those that can't keep up with the newest technology? I get the impression that people won't go for something like this!

As with cars, there comes a point when the older technology has to make way for the new and some of these older ESCs are going to have to move from the racing category to the bashing category. Is that such a bad thing? Is it someone's fault that they can afford newer technology while others cannot? I don't think so.

I can accept the fact that if I don't have the latest and greatest technology, that I'm going to be slower, so why can't everyone else?

When I see people using the word "cheating" - when they know very well that someone is racing within the stated rules, it just makes me cringe.
RMD,
i think the big complaint came about at a couple of the recent "big" races ie IIC and Cleveland because people had speedo's that were short in production and you could not get one even if you wanted one and the speedo was a clear advantage. that i really dont think is fair, suppose RB/Rossi came out with an Engine and there were only 30 of them in the world and they were worth almost 1/2 second per lap best you could qualify was 31st. the timing/boost is another issue in itself.
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