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Old 02-23-2010, 07:00 PM   #16
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i could be wrong, but if organizers want more racers in brushless stock/superstock class, something has to be done about escs. most likely later on software updates will not cut it, and new hardware will be sold to keep up with software (just like a computer).

on the bright side, seems more racers are joining the tamiya mini class, which is one of my favorite
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:53 PM   #17
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Personally I think the only way you are going to solve this issue is to give every one a 1st place award.... One word... ENTITLEMENT!!!! we have way to much of it in the world.
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:13 PM   #18
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I think the main problem is that people can be divided rougly in two groups. One with people who want to be better drivers and win through skill and one with people who want to win no matter what. Personally I don't find it as satisfying to win just because I have the better technology. To me that is a win for technology, not one I earned because I am the better driver.

Of course, not everybody is going to voluntarily give up their better ESC just to keep the competition about the skill like I have.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:00 PM   #19
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I think the main problem is that people can be divided rougly in two groups. One with people who want to be better drivers and win through skill and one with people who want to win no matter what. Personally I don't find it as satisfying to win just because I have the better technology. To me that is a win for technology, not one I earned because I am the better driver.

Of course, not everybody is going to voluntarily give up their better ESC just to keep the competition about the skill like I have.
This would be interesting if those with newer esc downgrade.. Would it happen, probably not.

This is another reason why mini is popular. The rules are there for a reason, to separate drivers by skill. There is no better feeling than trying to catch someone with similar speed whether its driving a mini or touring car.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:32 AM   #20
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The problem is not so much with the equipment but with the trophy hunters who will not move up into the faster classes. IMHO opinion, stock is the intermediate class, now I do not really care much about stock but I know where I came from and believe we need to nuture the beginners and the intermediates.

However, I have now seen people running the tekin speedy in the 21.5turn against absolute newbies and using all the software shit to go faster and just plain sandbag. These guys are way faster than the class but sit back there just to get a 2 dollar trophy.

Say what you want about the stock class but no way in 21.5 should tech be used by sandbaggers just to beat a pimple faced kid who spends his 3 dollars an hour earn't at mcdonalds on racing.

Grow some balls and race mod!!!

Now you say you come from nitro racing where there is only one class, sounds good to me. I have said it before the geeky tech boys can use all their techy timing geek stuff with their 17.5turn motor but put it up against my 3.5.

No matter how people want to sugar coat it, a sandbagging trophy hunter is a cheater!!

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Old 02-24-2010, 02:08 AM   #21
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This would be interesting if those with newer esc downgrade.. Would it happen, probably not.

This is another reason why mini is popular. The rules are there for a reason, to separate drivers by skill. There is no better feeling than trying to catch someone with similar speed whether its driving a mini or touring car.
When we switched to B/L I didn't know anything about it (I was still running brushed motors and was not really convinced BL was that much better to justify the investment). Part through the season a few people switched to brushless but they didn't show a major advantage and as I was still leading the championship I didn't think much of it. When time came to buy some new brushed motors I thought hey let's try to go with the technology. By that time, Tekin had come out with the RSPro. I bought one without understanding much about BL still and was obviously unaware of what a weapon I had stuck in my car. Right from the beginning, I smashed all my lap records, and put another lap on the field without even trying. It was too easy and too obvious that the technology had gone through a quantum leap. Even good drivers could not catch up, and the rest of the BL field was just as far behind. I did not enjoy it at all, so I decided that I would put the Tekin aside for when the majority of the field would go brushless. In the meantime, I convinced another two of my competitors to go for the Tekin system (I didn't even get a kickback from Tekin). They did, and in the last leg of the championship most people were running BL, with four Tekins in the field so I put my Tekin back in the car. We all had a blast again, sharing setups and helping each other get the most out of the ESCs and motors. Racing was enjoyable again and only skill separated us. Of course, I don't expect everyone to follow me. Everybody has their own idea of satisfaction.

Mini racing is close as long as people don't go buying exotic silvercans or buy 50 of them and go through sleepless dyno nights to pick the one-in-a-lifetime-freakozoid motor that will give them the leg up. There are cheap BL systems coming on the market that can make this frenzy obsolete, but they're not cheap enough to convince the casual club member they're worth the money, and as long as you don't have a mental racer who is investing their life savings in silvercans in your club, going BL is not really necessary. A number of clubs in Oz have gone BL in mini class whereas others have not. I think this suggests that some clubs are about fun/skill whilst others are about winning no matter what.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:20 AM   #22
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i drove 21.5T until this weekend, in the beginners class, and i drive with a tekin and won a 1st place in our local tournament. now i have driven RC cars for 6 months, and im not a very skilled driver yet, but for me to move up this fast might become a problem.. and i can absolutly not drive a mod car yet.. the superstock class here is running 17.5T so thats my next speed, and im not realy looking forward to it, its too fast for me as im not very skilled yet..
yet i still want the best tech to help me get better and faster..

just because i brought a speedo that cost alot less than the LRP SPX at the time i brought it, i dont want to be limited because ppl think that more money eqauls more speed (in the ESC business)

my mate is running the exact same setup as me. but managed a 6th place. so its not about speed in the beginners class, its about skill...

just make ppl that win 1st, 2nd or 3rd move to a faster class... its keeps the beginners clean from trophy hunters...

and its a good move to make a M class or similar.. i can apriciate that, it keeps the cost down if you dont want to use 2000+$ just to start...
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:36 AM   #23
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i drove 21.5T until this weekend, in the beginners class, and i drive with a tekin and won a 1st place in our local tournament. now i have driven RC cars for 6 months, and im not a very skilled driver yet, but for me to move up this fast might become a problem.. and i can absolutly not drive a mod car yet.. the superstock class here is running 17.5T so thats my next speed, and im not realy looking forward to it, its too fast for me as im not very skilled yet..
yet i still want the best tech to help me get better and faster..

just because i brought a speedo that cost alot less than the LRP SPX at the time i brought it, i dont want to be limited because ppl think that more money eqauls more speed (in the ESC business)

my mate is running the exact same setup as me. but managed a 6th place. so its not about speed in the beginners class, its about skill...

just make ppl that win 1st, 2nd or 3rd move to a faster class... its keeps the beginners clean from trophy hunters...

and its a good move to make a M class or similar.. i can apriciate that, it keeps the cost down if you dont want to use 2000+$ just to start...
Ok, well drive against someone with years of experience, who puts new tires on every run and then let me know how you go, your a newb in the class and that is great, have fun.

Just dont forget to move up.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:47 AM   #24
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I look at my racing in very simplistic terms now...

Either find a class or race place you are happy with, or change what class you race in

When you're onto a winning formula, stick at it!

I've raced for 15 years and with "stock" getting faster all the time, it's too fast for me to have anything more than a 13.5 in my car - No jumps to negotiate like off road, it's just a horsepower/lap time consistancy battle when the car is set up well.....

I'm not going to run my car into the nearest wall trying to go faster when I feel settled(ish) with a 13.5.

Secondly, mod (10.5 and faster) isnt very well supported around my area. (but that isnt a reason for me personally not to start it).

If you're feeling desire to race elsewhere, do it and you reap the reward, as you learn more than you would from your regular track.

Understanding your own skill level and others around you is part of the answer!

There's no fun in being somewhere you know you're going to be lapped day in day out, so either man up and find a way to get faster, or change your venue.

I am lucky to race at a club where everyone talks to everyone else, if the car isnt working well, you'll get help to get up to speed.... This is KEY to making a club and its members happy.

We have it very easy these days with brushless motors and lipo, as mentioned plenty of times before. So your focus switches from car prep, to making the most out of what you put out on the track with much less nursing....

Why do I always get myself involved in the politics of racing... I should do more actual racing and I might win more
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:31 AM   #25
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I think that's exactly the right attitude to have. On the upside, the club where I race would make a class for whatever you care to bring if there's enough demand (a few constant racers would be a minimum).

Short of that, anyone can buy a few marker dots the kind used at sport events, locate a nice, clean spot/parking lot and race away. It is only between you and the chronometer as it should always be. That's my trick anyway.
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Old 02-24-2010, 06:39 AM   #26
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tc3team: Great answer! I liked and im sticking to it +1!





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Old 02-24-2010, 06:55 AM   #27
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You cannot compare nitro to electric racing. There are way too many differences. The nice thing about nitro is all the money in the world won't help you if you can't drive. With the right tuning and setup a $350 engine can keep up very well with a $700 engine. The bigger the track, the more you can use the big dollar engine, but not for very long.

Electric has so much traction that a slight advantage in HP shows up big at the track.

No one in electric wants to run open because it's way too much work. These cars are ballistic with 17.5. More power means more breakage. Also electric cars accelerate much harder than nitro cars. Top speed still goes to the nitro cars, but not by very much.

Rulemaking bodies like ROAR cannot regulate speed controls. There's no way just by looking at a speed control whether or not it meets the specs.
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Old 02-24-2010, 06:57 AM   #28
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tc3team: Great answer! I liked and im sticking to it +1!
Life is too short to worry about racing, or to think about it in too much detail for me these days...

You have to ask yourself are you enjoying your racing and if not, ask yourself why....

Don't over complicate it!
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:14 AM   #29
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RMD,
i think the big complaint came about at a couple of the recent "big" races ie IIC and Cleveland because people had speedo's that were short in production and you could not get one even if you wanted one and the speedo was a clear advantage. that i really dont think is fair, suppose RB/Rossi came out with an Engine and there were only 30 of them in the world and they were worth almost 1/2 second per lap best you could qualify was 31st. the timing/boost is another issue in itself.


Great debate by the way....
I am going to go out on a limb and say this...it's NOT suppose they do it's already being DONE. Nitro engine manufactures only have to show a certain amout of sales of a particular engine in order for it to be called "publicly available" in order to comply with EFRA and IFMAR standards. Can they just "sell" them to their team drivers. Sure they can. Keep in mind My Novarossi FLASH 21. is NOT the same as Lamberto Collari's FLASH 21. and yes in the "right hands" is worth the extra 1/2 sec per lap. Is that fair well........you tell me.

Now lets' have a look at the Tekin and say the LRP. Tekin had the foresight to make an ESC that was USER programable LRP simply said IF they want the better speedo let them buy another one hahahaha straight to the bank. Could they have chosen to make them USER programable ..you bet. I do believe that alot of the anger stems from the few including myself that as another user "rmdhawaii" Tekin in essence gave users a "free" speedo. Is it unfair for them to do so, IMO no...Companies should be allowed to improve their technology however they see it fit. Could they have just made another speedo call it another name like the Tekin RS stock spec and charge you $200for it...heck yeah but instead they choose to put their customer/user first.

As all the packages say "Subject to change WITHOUT notice". remember It's not the people with the "BIG" budget that make it unfair it's the sanctioning bodies that allow it to happen
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:21 AM   #30
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Great debate by the way....
I am going to go out on a limb and say this...it's NOT suppose they do it's already being DONE.
Excellent point! That's exactly what happened when Tekin was handing out version 199 with turbo boost - only certain people got it. It wasn't until version 200 was released, that everyone in the Tekin camp had the same features/capability.

Team drivers always get the latest and greatest before anyone else. I'm surprised no one is complaining about that.
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