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Old 02-15-2010, 11:03 AM   #16
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Periodically, I have read comments on this forum about Novak motors not working with the Tekin escs. I asked our engineers why this might happen, and they have no idea. I will forward this thread to engineering. So post any incompatibilities here.

Here is a sensor harness advisory:

Quote:
In order to ensure that the replaceable sensor harness doesn’t easily fall out of the Ballistic motor accidentally, the end bell was designed to snuggly retain the end of the sensor harness in its connector.

As such, removal of the harness requires special attention so as to not damage the harness itself.

1. Note and mark the timing setting on the motor.
2. Using a 1.5 mm wrench, loosen the three flat head screws holding the end cap and sensor assembly in place.
3. Once loosened, grasp the sensor harness as close to the connector as possible.
4. Gently “walk” the sensor harness connector out of the motor’s connector by wiggling the connector side to side.
a. NOTE: You may need to pull up slightly on the harness as there is a small lip on the endbell that may impede the removal of the sensor
harness connector in certain circumstances.
5. Once the harness is removed, it can easily be replaced at this point.
6. Next, re-tighten the three 1.5 mm screws in the end cap, ensuring that the timing setting is set to where it was noted before the sensor harness removal process was begun.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:52 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Periodically, I have read comments on this forum about Novak motors not working with the Tekin escs. I asked our engineers why this might happen, and they have no idea. I will forward this thread to engineering. So post any incompatibilities here.

Here is a sensor harness advisory:
I look forward to hearing back from engineering. My motor is a SS Pro however, so I don't have a removeable sensor harness.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:01 PM   #18
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Check to make sure the timing is not too low on the motor. "0" on the cans is relative on all the motors out there and too little base timing in the motor is known to cause cogging on takeoff. eg, 0 degrees on the tekin motors actually has the sensors at about 30 degrees in the can relative to the center of each winding. Open whatever brand of motor you have and look at the sensors inside. If you can twist the timing to the point where the sensors are actually in between each winding you are at about where 30 degrees is marked on the tekin motors.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:15 PM   #19
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Check to make sure the timing is not too low on the motor. "0" on the cans is relative on all the motors out there and too little base timing in the motor is known to cause cogging on takeoff. eg, 0 degrees on the tekin motors actually has the sensors at about 30 degrees in the can relative to the center of each winding. Open whatever brand of motor you have and look at the sensors inside. If you can twist the timing to the point where the sensors are actually in between each winding you are at about where 30 degrees is marked on the tekin motors.
Seems to me that it did the same thing regardless of the motor timing position, but I'll see if I can figure out how to get the motor apart and look at the sensor board.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:22 PM   #20
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Customers, who have changed the timing on the SS Pro motors,(without marking the factory pre-set,) may have difficulty re-setting it back to 30 degrees.

I am posting our Ballistic/SS Pro timing technical update here:

Ballistic Motor Timing Information Update

In an effort to answer a number of questions relating to motor timing we have compiled some information to help you better understand static motor timing and its effects with our Ballistic Series of motors.

“How many Degrees of Timing does my Ballistic Motor have?”

Our Ballistic motors come with their timing calibrated and set from the factory. Using custom built and calibrated electronic equipment we set each and every motor to 30 degrees of timing. After Calibration the timing label is added and this set timing corresponds to the “N” on the timing label on the side

Each line on the label denotes a 5 degree change, so the timing available on the motor the label corresponds as follows:
Each line on the label indicates a 5 degree change.

..+..........N............-.
45 40 35 30 25 20 15

N = 30 (rows may not line up correctly)

SPECIAL NOTE: The timing we are describing is the ACTUAL ELECTRICAL TIMING in the motor, not just some arbitrarily reference made from a point on the outside of the motor like many of our competitors' motors. This makes comparing timing settings between different brands of motors difficult without the proper equipment.

“What Does Timing Adjustment do?”

We set our timing at an optimized point for most general applications. Adjusting the timing should only be done in small increments and with great care to observe the changes in system performance and temperatures.

WE RECOMMEND THAT YOUR SYSTEM’S TEMPERATURE NEVER EXCEED 160 DEGREES FARENHEIGHT.

When adjusting the timing, we recommend adjusting the timing, at most, 1 notch, or 5 degrees at a time.

When you turn the timing up to a more positive number (from N to +1) your motor will produce more no-load RPM and generally suffer a slight reduction in torque. To combat excessive heating brought about the loss of torque we recommend gearing down 1 tooth on the pinion for each notch (5 degree increment).

When turning the timing down, to a more negative number (from N to -1) your motor will produce less no-load RPM and generally experience an increase in torque. To combat a loss of top end speed brought about by the loss of RPM we recommend gearing up 1 tooth on the pinion for each notch (5 degree increment).

Ballistic Timing Questions, Part 2

“How do I set my Ballistic to zero degrees of timing?”

The factory timing for the Ballistic is 30 degrees of timing and corresponds to the N on the timing label on the back of the motor.

We do not recommend running zero degrees of timing for most applications and would recommend running at least 5 degrees of timing to ensure proper operation of the motor.

NOTE: When running your timing lower than the pre-set factory 30 degrees your reversing function of your Novak ESC may not work properly as it accounts for this 30 degrees of timing in its commutation sequence.

To adjust the motor to this lower 5 degree timing setting:

1. Loosen the three 1.5 mm hex head screws on the back timing cap of the motor

2. Turn the end-cap clockwise until the stationary notch on the endbell lines up with the edge of the label as demonstrated in the picture below.

3. Re-tighten the three 1.5 mm hex head screws in a circular pattern to ensure that they are all tightened evenly.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:27 PM   #21
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Default Motor Performance differences: Ballistic / SS Pro

The range of timing adjustment on the SS motors is limited and somewhat inconsistent. We set the timing to approx 30 degrees as we currently do on the Ballistic. Your "average" range of adjustment on the SS series of motors was from about 15 to 45 degrees... This is the reason why we made the timing label on the ballistic reflect these particular values.

Some SS motors will not allow for this amount of adjustment however: the tolerances among the stator, rotor, and sensor could build up in either direction to allow for more than a total of 45 degrees possible or less than 45 degrees possible.

Performance differences between the SS and Ballistic teardowns is generally attributed to differences in rotor strength, but there is one design attribute that differs between the SS and ballistic that may also contribute to the difference in performance: The air gap between the sensor assembly and the rotor itself.

This gap is relatively small on most of the SS series of motors and was increased on the ballistic motors. When tested on the dyno this difference in air gaps to the rotor resulted in changes that were similar to running different timing values. A bigger gap acts like more timing whereas a smaller gap acts like less timing.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Customers, who have changed the timing on the SS Pro motors,(without marking the factory pre-set,) may have difficulty re-setting it back to 30 degrees.
True.

Any guide on returning an SS Pro back to factory pre-set?
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by csracing View Post
The setup I'm running came directly from Randy Pike @ Tekin. I have an email it to Tekin support, but thought I'd fish for advice here as well. I'll have to wait to hear back from Tekin to see what their take is.
Take a look at Randy's Offroad Electric thread on named Vegas 2.0 Support Page. Another racer and I had the same problems and I know I have mine working fine now just not as fast as I want yet.

Try this:

Gear down the 17.5 down to 13.5 gearing to start.

Turn the motor timing as far to the right as it will go.

Add a capacitor to the receiver (made cogging go away)

Hope this helps. I know I'm just getting Tekin motors next time I buy one they seem to work better with the RS esc's.

But I might have to try a Kenetic when they come out.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by csracing View Post
True.

Any guide on returning an SS Pro back to factory pre-set?
Not without expensive mfg equipment.

Your best choice is probably returning your SS Pro and replacing it with a factory-RMF motor.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:40 PM   #25
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...Hope this helps. I know I'm just getting Tekin motors next time I buy one they seem to work better with the RS exc's.
This is the part we need to figure out.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:44 PM   #26
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Not without expensive mfg equipment.

Your best choice is probably returning your SS Pro and replacing it with a factory-RMF motor.
No offense, but if I "buy" anything, it will be a Redline motor that I can guarantee will work properly with the RS speed control.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:45 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Cedartrack View Post
Take a look at Randy's Offroad Electric thread on named Vegas 2.0 Support Page. Another racer and I had the same problems and I know I have mine working fine now just not as fast as I want yet.

Try this:

Gear down the 17.5 down to 13.5 gearing to start.

Turn the motor timing as far to the right as it will go.

Add a capacitor to the receiver (made cogging go away)

Hope this helps. I know I'm just getting Tekin motors next time I buy one they seem to work better with the RS esc's.

But I might have to try a Kenetic when they come out.
I'll bump the timing. What capacitor? I'm running the large capacitor that comes with the speedo wired per the instructions (wired to the speedo).
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:48 PM   #28
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I'll bump the timing. What capacitor? I'm running the large capacitor that comes with the speedo wired per the instructions (wired to the speedo).
Glitch Buster Capacitor
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:56 PM   #29
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Thanks for the link. I'm going to have to come up with a power distribution block for all this stuff. I have a 3ch receiver fully populated. Steering, throttle, personal transponder and a 25mm fan in the batt slot.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:50 PM   #30
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Yeah, that's the one I have. It took away the cogging the same way it helped with 4 cell cars. I wonder if the novak motors just pull more power? At first when I loaded 203 my RS would just shut down and act as if it had thermaled or had low voltage. After gearing it lower and setting the motor timing lower it still cogged. Adding the capicitor made it run smooth. I'm still adding timing back and gearing as it runs very cool and smoth now. I have over 10 Novak motors so I'm very interested in a solution.
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