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Old 02-04-2010, 10:08 AM   #1
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Default Glimpse at the future of "STOCK" Racing?

http://www.speedpassion.net/en/highl...tails.asp?h=13

Which company will be next?

Will we buy it?
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:14 AM   #2
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Don't Novak already offer something similar with the Havoc speedo?

Anyway, if the prices are suitably low, this could have a future.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:35 AM   #3
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They will only produce faster & faster versions of this ESC , good luck keeping up with it ...
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:58 AM   #4
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We have been offering affordable, spec racing systems, with ROAR approved motors for well over a year. We also maintain a comprehensive, trade in program for Novak customers. Service items and replacement items are always available so customers can make repairs on their own equipment.

Sounds like a solution to me. Right now there are about 3 active threads on this forum discussing this same issue. It seems that commenters would rather continue having these "discussions" rather than addressing solutions.

Novak has been offering this solution for a long time; but since it's Novak, it's "not fair". Like when we offered the first BL motors designed for racing; that wasn't fair either. I am re-posting an earlier comment here, also:

Quote:
You are correct to question fixed specs; one concern with spec products would be that they are all built to the same specifications. For instance timing can be added not only through PC adjustments, but also can be designed into the resident micro firmware.

A spec controller with a a small amount of built-in timing----say 5% or 10%---will have a significant advantage over speed controls designed with no timing and this may not be detectable.

As I have said before (many, many times....), the best solution for a spec controller would be manufacturers' offering stand alone, non-timing, non PC programmable escs. The manufacturers would be responsible (and accountable) for assuring customers and series directors that the controllers conforms to these rules.

This is definitely do-able. Other than USVTA, and maybe a few other series, "decision makers" are unwilling to decide. Lacking direction, the R/C industry is engineering its own demise. We, here at Novak, are definitely willing and capable of working toward this spec equipment goal.

Our dedication to this spec product segment should be obvious; we have been offering affordable, spec products/systems for well over a year. There is a simple solution--the spec products are available. But, there a lack of decisiveness.

All ROAR would have to do is set aside certain "spec/stock" events that require escs with the parameters outlined above, and mfgs could compete (within these guidelines) by offering the best products and after market parts and service for the price.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:07 AM   #5
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So whats the deal? I know as a race director I would love to see the "Spec" speed control catch on. I know of at least one major race promoter who wants the same. Is ROAR even entertaining this. Are they testing this?
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
They will only produce faster & faster versions of this ESC , good luck keeping up with it ...
Way to go out on a limb. That could be said for every item in RC. Better Tires, Better Radios, Better Cars, Better Engine/Motors, etc etc. In fact that could be said for every single consumer item. Better TVs, better game systems, better toasters, etc etc.

Unfortunately what Novak and SP has done won't really help without a governing body coming in to set guidelines and specs. Do we even know that the Novak and SP are even comparable? All we know is that they can't be tinkered with. Works great if you want everyone to run the same speedo. Fails miserable if you want people to have options and the two are very much different. The problem is you can set specs for the ESCs (say no more than 10 degrees fixed timing) but how would a governing body make sure one ESC company didn't put 11 in to get a 10% advantage? (not saying ESC makers are shady, I am sure they would all put 10 in but if one happened to perform better they would be accused of cheating much like in racing).
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Way to go out on a limb. That could be said for every item in RC. Better Tires, Better Radios, Better Cars, Better Engine/Motors, etc etc. In fact that could be said for every single consumer item. Better TVs, better game systems, better toasters, etc etc.
I'm waiting for "better drivers" and perhaps "talent in a can".

For someone just coming into the hobby, will they buy it? Unlikely, unless it is mandated. What is the most asked question by newbies? "What is the fastest car/motor/etc?"

Again, unless it is mandated, how many people running 17.5 now are willing to downgrade their Tekin/LRP, etc. ESCs to a combo like this? Not many, I'd bet.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:21 AM   #8
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I'm waiting for "better drivers" and perhaps "talent in a can".
Already been done. Many years ago a guy had a Tekin charger box with "Lap in a Box" written on top. Open it up to find a pic of Masami
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrcguy View Post
So whats the deal? I know as a race director I would love to see the "Spec" speed control catch on. I know of at least one major race promoter who wants the same. Is ROAR even entertaining this. Are they testing this?
As far as I know, ROAR has no interest in regulating escs and mfgs don't necessarily want them to. The manufacturers need to step up for the future of this hobby. But there is no profit in spec products; so, mfgs (understandably) would much rather sell $200-$300 controllers than 80.00 ones.

If ROAR simply set aside certain events (17.5, 21.5?) and said that the only speed controls allowed in these events must be designed according to these criteria, then some progress could be made:

~ stand alone controller
~ no built-in timing
~ no PC option
~ price cap?

The reason I suggest a "stand-alone" controller is because when you buy a certain model controller from a mfg, you are assured that it cannot be tinkered with to add performance. RDs and local race promoters could then adopt the ROAR spec guidelines for their events. If there were a definite market, companies might make the investment in spec products.

We were the first BL motor manufacturer to design and offer high wind motors (starting with the 13.5s); motor mfgs were not willing to make the investment until ROAR established guidelines for Spec motors. Getting ROAR interested was difficult since we were the only company offering these motors. Because, of course, "it's not fair".
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
I'm waiting for "better drivers" and perhaps "talent in a can".

For someone just coming into the hobby, will they buy it? Unlikely, unless it is mandated. What is the most asked question by newbies? "What is the fastest car/motor/etc?"

Again, unless it is mandated, how many people running 17.5 now are willing to downgrade their Tekin/LRP, etc. ESCs to a combo like this? Not many, I'd bet.
I'd do it if everyone did it, but I am just one person.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:05 PM   #11
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If we have learned anything it's that history repeats itself. What makes everyone think that there's not going to be any rapid advancements in "Spec" speedo technology? If racers demand more power and they will, guess what? Companies will deliver it.

...and some better than others, as we've seen with the current speedo war.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:08 PM   #12
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I'm very, very fond of the ability to tune the power band in the Tekin to match my driving style. The last thing I want is to run some cheap, janky ESC that feels like a light switch.

Getting the "feel" of a brushless motor right seems to be an art all of its own, and one that some manufacturers are not very good at.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunMac View Post
If racers demand more power and they will
The bigger issue is that the racers are never happy period, you speed it up they complain it's to fast, you slow it down they complain its to slow, you spec it they cant run cause of sponsors, you dont spec they say spec it.

Problem it not matter what happens the "users" will never be happy
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ShaunMac View Post
If we have learned anything it's that history repeats itself. What makes everyone think that there's not going to be any of the rapid advancements in "Spec" speedo technology? If racers demand more power and they will, guess what? Companies will deliver it.

...and some better than others, as we've seen with the current speedo war.
In what way could companies---all playing according to the same guidelines---offer more power? There really has been no advance in spec esc technology, because there are no official "spec" controllers. Only racing controllers used in spec events paired with high wind spec motors.

Why not just designate certain spec (17.5, 21.5) events for the new-comers and sport racers; then use these racing controllers with low wind, modified motors? That way, events designed to attract new participants would allow them to get involved at an affordable price and develop some experience before having to compete with more costly set-ups and long-time racers.

Where are the new customers (desperately needed) in this industry supposed to get involved in racing? We have been involved in R/C car racing for over 30 years and we saddened that there is no place where new racers can get involved in the hobby. After all, there are many other ways that these potential customers can spend their money rather than R/C. It seems to me that the entire R/C industry should be concerned.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
In what way could companies---all playing according to the same guidelines---offer more power?
In the same way companies ---all playing according to the same guidelines--- make motors that are faster than others.
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