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Old 01-31-2010, 09:07 PM   #121
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No matter what we change the slow people will whine because they can't win.

It is that simple.
YUPPP!

Mods where its at. Why mess with all this timing advance crap and spend all this money to go slow? Might as well spend it on tires. If you drive smooth and dont hit the wall it wont make much a difference to your parts bill. OR tires.

I dont think people realize mod is pretty much what ever. Its not just a 4.5 or such. Can be a 10.5 if thats what you can run faster laps with. Sure 13.5 isnt that much slower then mod now days. But it takes so much more skill to drive a mod car fast and consistent. 13.5 SUCKS! Strap a mod motor in and see if you can run faster lap times then your 13.5. Its alot harder then you think
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:12 PM   #122
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Don't you think the manufactures want to represent their chassis in all classes with their drivers and not just mod. Oh beginners start in Novice. The novice class really needs to come back and not let the newbies get thrown to the wolves. I could throw a mod motor in my car anytime I want to. But wait there isn't a mod class where I race. We run 17.5. We have 2 full heats every week its fun and some of the best racing I have seen. Way more exciting to watch then a mod race and watching racers drop out like flies with broken cars,blown,motors and so on. So I will be in Salem Tuesday you put your mod motor in and I will leave my 17.5 in. You can race with us and see who wins. Really how many beginners are you going to see at Snowbirds,IIC or nationals?
You have fun with your 17.5 tuesday. I'm more worried about finding a set up for the MI4. Our last carpet test was a dud. So you have fun with your car on your home track.

If I find a set up, I will be happy to race. Isn't that what its all about?? Racing

I'm talking on all levels of racing. No matter what. If it wasnt for club racing there would be no racing at all.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:34 PM   #123
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So I will be in Salem Tuesday you put your mod motor in and I will leave my 17.5 in. You can race with us and see who wins. Really how many beginners are you going to see at Snowbirds,IIC or nationals?
Awesome, you're actually gonna come and play with us? Didn't think you could pull yourself away from TZII.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:45 PM   #124
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Awesome, you're actually gonna come and play with us? Didn't think you could pull yourself away from TZII.
Yes I will be there. Only if you will race at TZII soon.
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:57 PM   #125
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i remember my first race (around 30 years ago), there was just two classes, one with marshals, and the other class without marshals (if your car flips, sorry your race is over just like a real car race).

I'm a budget/cheapo racer. I race mod and 13.5 and find mod to be the cheaper class and less issues with cheating. How do club races tech for 13.5 motors? In our club it's mostly the "honesty" system.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:09 PM   #126
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i remember my first race (around 30 years ago), there was just two classes, one with marshals, and the other class without marshals (if your car flips, sorry your race is over just like a real car race).

I'm a budget/cheapo racer. I race mod and 13.5 and find mod to be the cheaper class and less issues with cheating. How do club races tech for 13.5 motors? In our club it's mostly the "honesty" system.
Really how does someone cheat? If someone is clearly faster then the rest of the pack then have their motor checked. If someone feels they need to cheat to win they shouldn't be in the hobby. In the 5 years I have been racing I have never seen anyone cheat. Well once the person decided to change tires to a tire that was not spec and he got caught. Once you are labeled a cheater you are pretty much frowned on around here.
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:14 AM   #127
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A sponsored driver is a factory driver. They are representatives for a company. On Snowbirds site it says this Ryan's first carpet race. I took that the wrong way. And I work at a hobby shop. So hell, I guess ive been sponsored for years.

And There are plenty of, what you call "Factory Drivers" in 13.5. If you represent a company, no matter your percent, you should not be in stock/ super stock. That's a class for the fast privateers. Heck, maybe this means that there are to many sponsored drivers that have no reason to be on the team. (This is NOT directed at you. Broad statement.)
yes, there are factory drivers in 13.5, but 13.5 ain't stock and thats what you were talking about. and while we are both company reps, there is a huge difference between a guy that pays for nothing, collects a pay check, and one that gets a store discount, if you can't see that, then the whole point of this thread is mis-guided
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:32 AM   #128
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Agreed, 13.5 is NOT stock. No matter: I enjoy 13.5 superstock more than mod. Actually, I don't enjoy mod so much. I think the lowest turn motor WITH the advanced timing ESC's that I would enjoy is 10.5. IMO perfect speed and acceleration.

In Mod things wear faster than I am willing to pay for. I don't crash often either....
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:33 AM   #129
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Hi, I've seen many brushed motor cheaters get caught. Life just goes on and everyone keeps racing the next week. But teching for 13.5 motor compliance might be difficult for most club races to implement. Speed difference down the straight is not a good indicator, some overgear. And speeds are already close to mod to begin with.

Anyways I guess people gravitate to racing what they want. If it's stock or superstock so be it. Though I prefer mod, I started racing superstock because it's where most of the racers are.

I also race nitro where it seems rules are in place to define the entire power (e.g. limit on motor, fuel nitro content, header). In stock/superstock, only the motor is limited, ignoring esc/batteries play a large part in generating more power and speed. Mod takes care of that loophole

Just happy to still be racing.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:56 AM   #130
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I've gone back and fort on this issue, I don't think there is an issue with the stock class. I think there is an issue with electric onroad in general having so many classes with no true beginner class in sedan chasis...
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:05 AM   #131
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I've gone back and fort on this issue, I don't think there is an issue with the stock class. I think there is an issue with electric onroad in general having so many classes with no true beginner class in sedan chasis...


The whole point of this thread !

Give back stock to the beginners
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:07 AM   #132
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The whole point of this thread !



Give back stock to the beginner
there is the answer to the million dollar question

make it 21.5 and mod (any motor from 13.5 and 3.5)
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:30 AM   #133
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The whole point of this thread !

Give back stock to the beginners

I agree with you but who will give up all their equipment specific to stock racing? IMO local racing needs to promote a lower cost of racing for onroad which is comparible to the SC trucks in off road.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:30 AM   #134
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The whole point of this thread !

Give back stock to the beginners
I'm not so sure that it needs to be given back. Rather, I think the novice/beginner class needs to be recreated. My local track has no novice/beginner class for sedans, but does for offroad. "Stock" class is what it is. Spend a ton to go slower?...that's a personal choice.

This problem is complicated and goes beyond motors and esc's. The perceived cost of entry to sedan racing is high...which is why there are few new racers showing up I think. It's not hard to spend well over $800 to get a chassis, electronics, motor and battery for sedan racing. Pretty healthy sum for a beginner to swallow. Compare that to an HPI Blitz rtr for $200 plus a battery pack...even a decent $130 pack puts your total at $330 and you're good to go.

Good discussion with lots of good ideas going on here...a solution will be a tough nut to crack me thinks.

Fun ain't cheap!!!
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:48 AM   #135
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From the Snowbirds

Touring Mod Rubber A Main
Car Number Position Name Laps Time
Jilles Groskamp 26 5:06.07
Touring 13.5 Rubber A Main
Car Number Position Name Laps Time
Jason Schreffler 26 5:08.14
Touring 17.5 Rubber A Main
Car Number Position Name Laps Time
Brad Johnson 25 5:08.74

Fast laps for Mod and Stock are less than 1 sec apart, and its not exactly a small track, whats the point of even splitting classes like that anymore might as well have everyone run 13.5 and have 1 class
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