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Old 02-25-2010, 11:23 AM   #481
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It's tough but that is racing. I am not not going to buy something just because the next guy can't. I am always trying new products and if somemthing comes out that is faster then what I already have I am going to buy it. Remember this is still racing it is expense. Just race in the cheaper classes. practice practice practice!!!!!!
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:32 AM   #482
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I see it even worse in Kyosho Mini-Z. Brooklyn Hobbies put in a Mini-Z track and you have to see the 1/8 scale guys spending tons of money on 1/24 scale RC cars!
Yepps thats racers mentality. and a lot of fun (just the tuning part)

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Everyone was supposed to run the same off the shelf motor but then someone figured out how to "tune" them and sells them for $50.
i bought my mod motor (corally x-bp 4,5T) with new bearings for about: 25$

total for esc lipo cutoff and motor: 100$ (novak gtb)
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:44 AM   #483
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It's tough but that is racing. I am not not going to buy something just because the next guy can't. I am always trying new products and if somemthing comes out that is faster then what I already have I am going to buy it. Remember this is still racing it is expense. Just race in the cheaper classes. practice practice practice!!!!!!
And you can be sure that guy will post on rctech the next day, calling for more specs and more classes because he isn't winning and not having any fun boo hoo
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:04 PM   #484
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Novice, Sportsman mod, Pro Mod.

Maybe.....
I like this approach.

Novice 17.5 spec type class. I personally think 21.5 is too slow even for the novice class and some loose interest. A lot of racers come from bashing where crazy fast speeds are the norm. How many bashers out there routinely drive a sick fast Slash with a 3S lipo in it?

What's important for the novice is being able to concentrate on driving and setup skills and not worry about being technically obsolete in 3 months. The quickly rising cost will drive out the people getting into the sport.

Sportsman mod and Pro mod sounds good.

These guys have been around long enough to know what to expect and plan for it in their approach and budget. Going mod negates the techno wars quickly letting you concentrate on driving skills, setup, and finding the best combo for your personal style and interest.

If you want an equalizer make it the tires. Maybe a spec tire in the sportsman class and pure open in the Pro class.

Just some more ideas..........
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:11 PM   #485
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What about the classes get a name change as they are no longer stock? 17.5 call it 17.5.. If you want to run a stock / spec class then everyone uses the same motor / speedie combo... Its just an idea if people want a more even class.. But then people will probably find another way to make the hand out combo faster..

I hear water dipping the ESC has some serious performance changes..
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:43 PM   #486
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Turbo on an electric car, now that is just hilarious, does it have a special blow off valve to make that special hiss sound!!!

Hahahahaha, I still say stock is a sissy class!!! newbs the exception.
Yes it does. "cept it goes, "phsssst"! I have heard some that go,"hiiith" though.

Think about this. Without the stock stuff you would'nt have a need to have a laptop in your pit. Unless it was to secretly watch Teletubbies or something. Now that's sissy....

Rob..........
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:10 PM   #487
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I call that "racer" mentality. You start a class that is supposed to be free of technology, and someone wants to bring technology in. And that's when someone starts a new thread on RC Tech.

You see it in the Tamiya silver can motor classes. Everyone was supposed to run the same off the shelf motor but then someone figured out how to "tune" them and sells them for $50. Not what the class was supposed to be about.

I see it even worse in Kyosho Mini-Z. Brooklyn Hobbies put in a Mini-Z track and you have to see the 1/8 scale guys spending tons of money on 1/24 scale RC cars!
I'm with you... The root cause is once you restrict something, someone will burn the midnight oil to squeeze more of the limits. It is a bit of cause and effect. One way we supported this but also supported both sides newbie vs experienced racer, is to take the experienced racers out of the newbie class, yes you will get a sandbager from time to time, but at club racing it is about fun and learning. But for the most part you have to earn your way in to the other class. I really do not care what limits you place on a class, some one will come up with a better mouse trap... This is the very reason we have computers today, someone had a dream and developed it. No different in racing.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:29 PM   #488
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What about the classes get a name change as they are no longer stock? 17.5 call it 17.5.. If you want to run a stock / spec class then everyone uses the same motor / speedie combo... Its just an idea if people want a more even class.. But then people will probably find another way to make the hand out combo faster..

I hear water dipping the ESC has some serious performance changes..
I'm with you up to the point of using the same motor / speedie combo, this does not allow for other MFG in the market and then the prices will go up by the one that has a lock on the market. I can see a max price set but not a limit on MFG. It worked great for a while for Novak, but then others started to bring BL motors to the market and look the choices you now have... It is great for the market...

Personally with the speedos as good as they are and with Tekin changing the rules, upgradable speedo rather then buying a new one 3 times a year, watch what others do, they will adapt or get out... Tekin was a power house for years, then something happened, and fell off, then came back. But if you really want a Newbie class, great, but stop calling it Newbie or Novice or basher... call it something that they can be happy about saying. Let's show respect to the new people at the track and embrace them. Before everyone jumps on me, I'm not saying we don't show them respect, it is a perception issue, from the newbie's point of view.... Like like at the club level a class that supports people starting out, put a limit on motor say 21.5 and a price limit on the speedo, MSRP of say 110.00, hardness of tires...

After that, step up in class setup to Pro (you call it mod) I call it is "Every thing is fare in love and war, this is war." class. Tech the weight and body,that is it. Nothing else. It is war on the track.... Let the big dogs race. I'm not a fan of trying to name the class based on abilities or motor size, or anything else, because in 3 years it will change. Remember 13.5 when it came out was trying to keep up with a 27T motor, now it is called the new mod. It is a just a class...
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:49 AM   #489
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I'm with you up to the point of using the same motor / speedie combo, this does not allow for other MFG in the market and then the prices will go up by the one that has a lock on the market. I can see a max price set but not a limit on MFG. It worked great for a while for Novak, but then others started to bring BL motors to the market and look the choices you now have... It is great for the market...

Personally with the speedos as good as they are and with Tekin changing the rules, upgradable speedo rather then buying a new one 3 times a year, watch what others do, they will adapt or get out... Tekin was a power house for years, then something happened, and fell off, then came back. But if you really want a Newbie class, great, but stop calling it Newbie or Novice or basher... call it something that they can be happy about saying. Let's show respect to the new people at the track and embrace them. Before everyone jumps on me, I'm not saying we don't show them respect, it is a perception issue, from the newbie's point of view.... Like like at the club level a class that supports people starting out, put a limit on motor say 21.5 and a price limit on the speedo, MSRP of say 110.00, hardness of tires...

After that, step up in class setup to Pro (you call it mod) I call it is "Every thing is fare in love and war, this is war." class. Tech the weight and body,that is it. Nothing else. It is war on the track.... Let the big dogs race. I'm not a fan of trying to name the class based on abilities or motor size, or anything else, because in 3 years it will change. Remember 13.5 when it came out was trying to keep up with a 27T motor, now it is called the new mod. It is a just a class...
Novice class did have a name, it was called stock, but the sandbaggers with all their tech gadgets and computers and other nerdy shit have ruined that. These guys cannot cut it in the mod class so they try and buy a 2 dollar trophy, spend all this money, just to go slow. (lap times dont cut it boys, anyone can drive a slow car).

Rules are there to try and stop the cheaters, cheaters will be cheaters so new rules need to be written to stop the loop holes. It is a viscious circle because most people cannot realise that they are shit drivers and will never win anything.

I am sorry but I am passionate about this and one guy said it before, if we do not look after the new drivers than the sport is in trouble.

Most people forget one thing, at the end of the day it is a toy car we are all racing, no more no less.
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:02 AM   #490
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Novice class did have a name, it was called stock, but the sandbaggers with all their tech gadgets and computers and other nerdy shit have ruined that. These guys cannot cut it in the mod class so they try and buy a 2 dollar trophy, spend all this money, just to go slow. (lap times dont cut it boys, anyone can drive a slow car).
but what if your club only has a stock class?

"These guys cannot cut it in the mod class so they try and buy a 2 dollar trophy"

funny....
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Old 02-26-2010, 05:05 AM   #491
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Novice,stock and mod,go by driving skill not equip and it generaly will sort itself out.The track owner /director is there for a reason,to keep it going.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:33 AM   #492
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I'm with you... The root cause is once you restrict something, someone will burn the midnight oil to squeeze more of the limits. It is a bit of cause and effect. One way we supported this but also supported both sides newbie vs experienced racer, is to take the experienced racers out of the newbie class, yes you will get a sandbager from time to time, but at club racing it is about fun and learning. But for the most part you have to earn your way in to the other class. I really do not care what limits you place on a class, some one will come up with a better mouse trap... This is the very reason we have computers today, someone had a dream and developed it. No different in racing.
This is why I think we only need 2 classes in touring car.

One class designed specifically for newbies, bashers, and cheapskates (okay bad word but people who don't want to spend money). 21.5 motors, spec rubber tires, and realistic bodies that we know don't handle. You can even spec the SC to one of the spec speed controls from Novak or Tekin.

And then 17.5 for the true racers. Any chassis, any legal body, and any SC you want. That would pretty much cover everyone. And if enough people want to run 13.5 or 10.5 hey go for it, and now a racer can run 2 classes.

ROAR is trying to do something by making the 17.5 class a "sportsman" class at the upcoming nats. Biggest thing is no sponsored drivers, and you can't run one of the other classes (keeping out the sandbaggers). ANd rumor is ROAR will change this to a 21.5 class next year.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:59 AM   #493
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Tracks are on their own,Roar rules are enforced at the nat leve only if I'm not mistaken.They are promoting the hobby,not nitpicking.Isn't it odd that when you go to the track,if you are new to the hobby or in it for awhile,you sign up to run your car/truck,it is your choice.Go wherte you are comfortable,with the program and the track and insyead of bitching here or at the track go elsewhere,you will have those that race with a focus,that is why you keep score.Unless I'm wrong which I usually am it is called competition.
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:59 AM   #494
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Novice class did have a name, it was called stock, but the sandbaggers with all their tech gadgets and computers and other nerdy shit have ruined that. These guys cannot cut it in the mod class so they try and buy a 2 dollar trophy, spend all this money, just to go slow. (lap times dont cut it boys, anyone can drive a slow car).

Rules are there to try and stop the cheaters, cheaters will be cheaters so new rules need to be written to stop the loop holes. It is a viscious circle because most people cannot realise that they are shit drivers and will never win anything.

I am sorry but I am passionate about this and one guy said it before, if we do not look after the new drivers than the sport is in trouble.

Most people forget one thing, at the end of the day it is a toy car we are all racing, no more no less.
Haha I couldn't agree more!
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:42 AM   #495
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Novice class did have a name, it was called stock, but the sandbaggers with all their tech gadgets and computers and other nerdy shit have ruined that.
Was it really? I have only been racing for a couple of years but have been in the hobby since I was a kid. I guess I always thought "stock" was the intermediate class....beginner, stock, mod (speaking in brushed terms)? No?

idk...
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