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Old 02-09-2010, 07:56 PM   #406
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I just got a second hand SPX today, man!!! I have never heard my 17.5 revving like a brushed motor. I used to run TC spec, this stock esc is really amazing. However, SPX has been out for quite a while, I can't really imagine how much the current SXX and Tekin RS can squeeze out from a 17.5

Is it fair to run the latest ESC against some who still use TC spec, GTB, or whatever? Well, if you have great skill, you may have chance, but if everybody is equally good, passing Tekin or SXX will be difficult.

the advanced timing has been used by factory drivers secretly for a long time (my friend told me), if that is true, I think as least Tekin is honest and generous enough to share this technique to everyone, so they can take advantage of it
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:29 AM   #407
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Default Limit the amount of timing ESC can add?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam-E View Post
Play with software all you like but lock the timing, technology has never advanced as fast as the current software updates due to timing and this is the problem. ROAR should have enforced this rule from the start, timing locked motors and esc.
No doubt things have gotten fast in a really short period of time. I think we are starting to realize the potential of brushless.

I'd be for limiting how much timing can be added. But I'd still like to adjust how it's applied. I think that could be the solution to the problem. For example, make 30 degrees the max amount of ESC timing. When it's applied, and how it's applied can be still left up to the user so they can tune for their track. Just an idea...
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:36 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by stitchy View Post
I believe that rookies are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the rookies' laughter remind us how we used to be
100% awesome.

(i wish i hadn't seen b&b's reply first - it might have taken me a bit. )
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:46 AM   #409
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I believe that rookies are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the rookies' laughter remind us how we used to be


Sexual chocolate?
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:44 AM   #410
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I decided long ago, never to enter in any mod classes
If I fail, if I succeed
At least I'll race as I believe
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away tekin two oh threeeeeee
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:55 AM   #411
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I decided long ago, never to enter in any mod classes
If I fail, if I succeed
At least I'll race as I believe
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away tekin two oh threeeeeee
The work of a master...or one sick pink rabbit?

What were we talking about again???...oh yeah, a celebration of the stock class.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:13 AM   #412
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I thought I can forget NITRO racing when I see the LIPO and BRUSHLESS motor..............now, I think, I will be back to nitro racing. At least, I don't need my laptop with me while I am at the track.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:22 AM   #413
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The work of a master...or one sick pink rabbit?

What were we talking about again???...oh yeah, a celebration of the stock class.
You know you were singing along, checking my cadence...
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:34 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
No doubt things have gotten fast in a really short period of time. I think we are starting to realize the potential of brushless.

I'd be for limiting how much timing can be added. But I'd still like to adjust how it's applied. I think that could be the solution to the problem. For example, make 30 degrees the max amount of ESC timing. When it's applied, and how it's applied can be still left up to the user so they can tune for their track. Just an idea...
Not a bad idea, but it would not satisfy your desire to tune. Here's why, after seeing the datalogs, it's obvious that we are throwing upwards of 60+ degrees of timing at the bottom end of our 17.5 motor's RPM range. For instance, at the slowest part of the infield, many people are already adding their entire Timing Boost allotment, and their Turbo Boost delay is usually too short to be considered just a straightaway power boost. In layman's terms, most if not all of the fast guys at Horsham are using the entire Timing Boost and a big swath of Turbo Boost all the time.

If you limit the ESC timing to 30', we will just max it out and gear for that amount of ESC & endbell timing. It would be simpler to just use zero degrees of ESC timing and be done with it, IMO.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:40 AM   #415
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You know you were singing along, checking my cadence...
There are no flies on you my friend...no flies!

Solution to the stock class?...bracket racing. Something like drag racing. Everybody runs for laps/time and then are broken up into groups of other drivers who have similar laps/time. These groups then have a final race among themselves for a "bracket" winner. This way, you are running against other drivers with similar speed so there will be good racing for all. You can call them Bracket A, Bracket B, etc.

Hey, wait a minute!!!!?!??!??!?!
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:06 AM   #416
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There are no flies on you my friend...no flies!
...just the marks left by them, right?

going back to 19th century...that IS old tech!
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:22 AM   #417
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Default esc's

When is the last time a new technology was banned from RC racing? I've never seen it. ESC's are the one thing where ROAR doesn't have a 'Tested and approved' list. They we're sleeping here a bit, they should have seen this coming and reacted appropriatley. ex: announcements and setting a timetable for when they are class legal.
-
The A main in stock has always been represented by the guys who are willing to open their wallets a bit further than the B main guys. That's the way it is.
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Setting limits on timing would be tedius to tech and would encourage cheating.
-
I do like the new advancing ESC's. The Lipo, 17.5 combo for 1/12th is too slow without it. I just don't like having to spend another 200 bucks to get back to equipment parity...right after I spent 200 bucks for Lipo's and a charger, right after I spent 200 for a link car...etc. . Whats next?
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:33 AM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Not a bad idea, but it would not satisfy your desire to tune. Here's why, after seeing the datalogs, it's obvious that we are throwing upwards of 60+ degrees of timing at the bottom end of our 17.5 motor's RPM range. For instance, at the slowest part of the infield, many people are already adding their entire Timing Boost allotment, and their Turbo Boost delay is usually too short to be considered just a straightaway power boost. In layman's terms, most if not all of the fast guys at Horsham are using the entire Timing Boost and a big swath of Turbo Boost all the time.

If you limit the ESC timing to 30', we will just max it out and gear for that amount of ESC & endbell timing. It would be simpler to just use zero degrees of ESC timing and be done with it, IMO.

I see what you are saying...and I am assuming we're talking Tekin. So the way I imagine it would be max the Boost at 20 and have Turbo add another 10 for example. Because if I understand V203 correctly the 50 degrees of timing is added between the start and end RPM settings and the Turbo adds more. Just limit how much. I think all the update-able ESC's could do this. Easier said than done of course...but its just an idea.

But your argument also states poeple will just add the timing to the motor, which is correct. But if we run a locked down ESC, you bet poeple will play with timing on their motors. Even Novak Havok combos allow you to adjust timing on the motor.

Who knows ...just more fodder for the debate.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:38 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Sam-E View Post
Play with software all you like but lock the timing, technology has never advanced as fast as the current software updates due to timing and this is the problem. ROAR should have enforced this rule from the start, timing locked motors and esc.
how do you enforce a rule that isn't a rule???

timing esc's are not a problem, those that complain about them are....

just buy a tekin or what ever, follow the 1200 pages of info on how to make it work and be happy, if its to fast, then campaign for a slower motor class, while leaving everyone else alone. people are calling for lock timing esc's but when roar mandates it, and novak and tekin decide to charge 300 bucks for it then what, more bitching and crying that it should be cheaper and roar needs to but a price cap on it. looking at the voting results from this past fall, seems while we don't have the time to vote we have plenty of time to point the finger.
think I'm done with this thread, it has no point and is going no where (and yea, that includes all my previous posts along with this one)
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:53 PM   #420
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just wire up 2 voltage tripling circuits in series and then you will never ever be under powered. Just imagine running 60 volts to your stocker and seeing the looks on their faces as your car goes by at 70 mph. A 2s 5kmah 40c lipo can handle 1.4kw of continous current, that would be one fast car. Seriously, you have no idea about the limits that they can push these cars to.
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