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Old 02-08-2010, 10:40 AM   #331
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Malkiy
What has change all the sudden ?
Mod sedan & mod off-road class's are the same...



The best & most experience are always in the Mod class...


Even now ...
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:49 AM   #332
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Hey Chuck, that's a good line of thought too. I road raced bikes for several years, am now 42 with a young child at home, so...you guessed it, I'm not racing any more. I am one of the people you're talking about.

BTW is the 955i in your name a ref. to the Triumph street bike? I had a Daytona 1200 for a few years and loved it...made a fantastic S/T bike.
You nailed it!! Triumph Speed Triple. Daytona 1200 is a really nice bike. They made a Daytona Super 3 for a couple years and I would love to find one. Not the quickest or lightest bike but some really nice classic looking lines.

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Old 02-08-2010, 11:07 AM   #333
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So your saying you like to kill the slower guys chances of winning in other words? That's cool dude

I think your definition of sand bagging is completely different from what alot of people think. You can tinker with timing and gearing in mod. I don't see the point of doing all that in stock. Why Jack with all this stuff to make the supposed to be slow class fast. Why not just go fast?

yea, you mean like everytime, paul L. barry b. show up to race mod and kill the slower mod drivers chance to win, you mean like that I think maybe we should have a expert mod class and a club hack mod class so i can have a chance at winning.

theres always going to be a fast guy and theres always going to be slow guys, if all the "fast" move up a class, then all your doing is handing some "slow" guy the win. why not make them learn put in the time and learn to skill to win. if people quit because they can't win, then they need to join a adult T- ball league where they don't keep score.

so now your going to tell everyone when YOU used to run stock, you opened the packaged and just ran the motor as is, you didn't change brushes, you didn't change springs, you didn't use comm drops, you didn't clean the comm? its all the same as that dreaded tinking with timing you oppose now. stock hasn't been the "slow" class for quite a while now. "stock" is running faster then "mod" did a few years ago.

bottom line of all the past 23 pages, its up to the local tracks to do what is best for there track to stay open, if that means, all silver can, all stock, all mod, all slash, or whatever combo makes the most people happy then have at it. what works in ohio, may not work in washington, maybe someone should start a whats the most popular class in your city/state so we can see the differences across the nation/world. i know what doesn't work, telling someone what they should and shouldn't do. someones been telling me that for years, and if not for that I would be running mod off road like I do on road.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:23 AM   #334
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It just figures that this would turn into another Cherry vs Skypilot thread...
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:25 AM   #335
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Are people leaving because of the stock class or could it be the way the economy has been for the last two years? People aren't going to race or buy new gear when their companies a cutting their wages, not giving them raises or firing them.
I think the two go hand in hand.

At the "Club" level stk. is the entry class (other than VTA if offered) if the "new" guy and even the slower "older" guys shows up and every week he needs a New ESC or New software (that he doesn't understand already but feels he needs cause everyone else has it),needs a laptop to programm said ESC., needs a new motor every few weeks cause he hasn't learned how to use said ESC and software and over heated his motor. Needs a new tires every 3-4 runs (Because he saw the fast guy who has a good job doing it) and so on and so on. Then the new guys goes and finds EITHER a new form in this hobby or a new hobby all together.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:25 AM   #336
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Whats the point to Sedan if there is no mountain to climb ?

None of the so called expert stock driver's say they should move up .


Sedan looks all about the win , nothing about improvement & achievement ...


No wonder no ones races mod sedan , must be very few good drivers left !!!



Direct result of killing the beginner class .....
you see thats the problem, the 'so called expert' stock drivers, who's calling them that besides you. not me.

all about the win?, is that why theres pages and pages on the NW threads of you going back and forth with other drivers about finishing position, track records, and series point standings. btw, isn't winning an achievement?

the begginer class, novice is doing fine
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:28 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Malkiy
What has change all the sudden ?
Mod sedan & mod off-road class's are the same...



The best & most experience are always in the Mod class...


Even now ...
ah no, mod sedan is way faster the mod off road, no way can sedan drivers use a 13.5 or 10.5 and be competitive like at your off road track.

other then the novice slash drivers running mod sc10 i would agree with you on your last point
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:30 AM   #338
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It just figures that this would turn into another Cherry vs Skypilot thread...
and of course what would a cherry vs skypilot thread be without your comments too.

go count the total posts, count geos, count mine, hardly and cherry vs skypilot thread. maybell, wrong as usual
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:54 AM   #339
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You nailed it!! Triumph Speed Triple. Daytona 1200 is a really nice bike. They made a Daytona Super 3 for a couple years and I would love to find one. Not the quickest or lightest bike but some really nice classic looking lines.

Take it easy,
Chuck
Ya, the Super 3 is the same bike as the 1200 (or vice versa) with one cyl. lopped off...loved that bike.
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:01 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
Are people leaving because of the stock class or could it be the way the economy has been for the last two years? People aren't going to race or buy new gear when their companies a cutting their wages, not giving them raises or firing them.


This is the most overlooked issue in RC racing. Although seldom talked about, this coupled with the half dozen issues in on road is what is plaguing our segment of the hobby.

Our track had 64 SCT entries last Friday night! There was nothing special about that Friday...just regular race day. Also on our on road night we have seen a big increase in the mini class. It kinda came out of nowhere...now we have 2 mini class heats. The reason why I think these things have happened is because both are easy and cheap. For $200+ you're racing a Slash.

So I know as racers we say slow things down, ban this, ban that...make stock this motor...run mod only...etc. All of these things try to address the issues, and for the most part are all correct. I think in this economy poeple are looking for easy, fun, repeatable types of fun. That is not electric on road racing. Our segment is fun for sure!...but it is technical, costly no matter what class, and difficult to be really good at. So for someone just coming in there are easier segments of the hobby to get into for the money. But at the same time making on road easier may NOT be the answer...or not the only answer.

When gas was $4.50 a gallon, sales of Hummers and other SUV's plummeted. No one was thinking, hey I want a car that gets 12 MPG with gas prices that high. Our segment of the hobby is the gas guzzling single use vehicle segment. Few want to buy a pricey race only car. Off Road lends itself to bashing and racing.

So to circle back to racing and racing classes and the lack of participation...racers will race. Set the rules and run. Make novice slow, make stock/faster and super stock/mod fastest. But don't expect a in flux of new racers...at first. Things outside the hobby will need to change also. But the mentality of people, because this economy, may take more time to change. People are worried about their jobs and homes. It may take a while for them to be worry free to where they can spend as freely as we all once did. If you are racing now and racing in flourishing in you area...feel a little lucky.

Let's work on making the racers happy and get the rules set. Then we can work on bringing new blood by offering an easy, and hopefully economical, path for them to follow and enjoy.
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:02 PM   #341
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Solution....

13.5 and faster motor.............OPEN MOD.

17.5 is the new stock (no software ban or turbo with supercharger and NOS are allow, no need to spec).

21.5 is the entry level or novice...

25.5 is the new SPEC class like USVTA or RCGT.

Very easy to resolve, no need to buy new motor, just use whatever you have and pick the class. No need to spec, no need to ban the software of the day...........how hard to figure this out?

DONE.....
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:05 PM   #342
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Solution....

13.5 and faster motor.............OPEN MOD.

17.5 is the new stock (no software ban or turbo with supercharger and NOS are allow, no need to spec).

21.5 is the entry level or novice...

25.5 is the new SPEC class like USVTA or RCGT.

Very easy to resolve, no need to buy new motor, just use whatever you have and pick the class. No need to spec, no need to ban the software of the day...........how hard to figure this out?

DONE.....
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:33 PM   #343
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Malkiy

The best & most experience are always in the Mod class...

curious as to why your in that class then..
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:50 PM   #344
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Fine, I'll run mod if someone pays the extra expense for:

Faster wearing tires

Multiple mod motors (some turns are faster depending on size of track). I've used the same tekin redline 17.5 motor for the past year and a half.

Faster wearing parts

More broken parts

Lexan bodies that wear faster

And who says everyone loves to go faster? Isn't that subjective? I prefer a capped speed where driving line and passing skill win you races not who can handle the most motor. And before you say it, I know you can get by running a turn your confortable with but you won't be competive against the guys that can drive with more motor.
Drive smooth, works wonders on parts, tires, bodies. You dont need tons of mod motors. Buy something like a 5.5 and your good all over. Gear it down for smaller tracks, gear up for bigger tracks. If 13.5 is running close to the same laps as mod, I dont know why people are acting like mod is that much crazier? Except you dont need the speedo/motor/battery of the week to be competitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Whats the point to Sedan if there is no mountain to climb ?

None of the so called expert stock driver's say they should move up .


Sedan looks all about the win , nothing about improvement & achievement ...


No wonder no ones races mod sedan , must be very few good drivers left !!!



Direct result of killing the beginner class .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Malkiy
What has change all the sudden ?
Mod sedan & mod off-road class's are the same...

The best & most experience are always in the Mod class...

Even now ...
I couldnt agree more! With both posts.

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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
yea, you mean like everytime, paul L. barry b. show up to race mod and kill the slower mod drivers chance to win, you mean like that I think maybe we should have a expert mod class and a club hack mod class so i can have a chance at winning.

theres always going to be a fast guy and theres always going to be slow guys, if all the "fast" move up a class, then all your doing is handing some "slow" guy the win. why not make them learn put in the time and learn to skill to win. if people quit because they can't win, then they need to join a adult T- ball league where they don't keep score.

so now your going to tell everyone when YOU used to run stock, you opened the packaged and just ran the motor as is, you didn't change brushes, you didn't change springs, you didn't use comm drops, you didn't clean the comm? its all the same as that dreaded tinking with timing you oppose now. stock hasn't been the "slow" class for quite a while now. "stock" is running faster then "mod" did a few years ago.

bottom line of all the past 23 pages, its up to the local tracks to do what is best for there track to stay open, if that means, all silver can, all stock, all mod, all slash, or whatever combo makes the most people happy then have at it. what works in ohio, may not work in washington, maybe someone should start a whats the most popular class in your city/state so we can see the differences across the nation/world. i know what doesn't work, telling someone what they should and shouldn't do. someones been telling me that for years, and if not for that I would be running mod off road like I do on road.
No, because mod is THE class to show off the talent, there is no higher up class to race in. If you cant run with Berry or Pual, then start practicing. If those drivers ran at my track, I would run nothing but mod to work on getting on pace. Some people like to get some wins in one class and work there way up slowly, I like the challenge of racing with the fast guys and would rather jump right into the fast class and keep the challenge going. Whats the fun of winning when the dude behind you had no change in heck to win? Its not rewarding to me I guess you could say.

And yes actually I did open the motor and ran the same one forever. I didnt have money to buy all the shiz to mess with motors. Lots of people gave me motors to run, but I didnt have a new motor like every run like most people did. I did only start racing a few years ago, and only had to spend a few months with brushed before BL was all legal. I ran 13.5 for 2 or 3 race days before that motor fell apart (long story here, but had a faulty motor) and bought a 10.5 and ran there for a long time. Going fast is more fun! And at that time thats was the only reason I raced was to just have fun. Now obviously thats still the main thing, but being competitive and getting better is what im doing. Thats why were sponsored isnt it?
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:16 PM   #345
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No, because mod is THE class to show off the talent, there is no higher up class to race in. If you cant run with Berry or Pual, then start practicing. If those drivers ran at my track, I would run nothing but mod to work on getting on pace. Some people like to get some wins in one class and work there way up slowly, I like the challenge of racing with the fast guys and would rather jump right into the fast class and keep the challenge going. Whats the fun of winning when the dude behind you had no change in heck to win? Its not rewarding to me I guess you could say.
I agree with this mentality. We have drivers at my track that are on that level and one of the guys who I used to be as fast as ran 13.5 all season with the truly fast guys. He now can put me down by a lap in 17.5. Jumping in with the big boys is the only way to get better. Do you think pro football players would be pros if they only wanted to play with there high school teams because they had fun in high school?
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